Open energy platforms make sustainable power tech possible – Transcript
To listen to the podcast on open energy platforms, click above. Or to learn more, read: Green energies and hydrogen: Using simulation to design systems and coupling the system model to the PLC for control evaluation.
Conor Peick: Hey there, and welcome back to the Future Ready Podcast.
My name is Connor Pike, and I’ll be your host and moderator for our discussion today. I’m joined once again by Christian Gugel, head of the Energy and Chemicals Vertical at Siemens.
Christian, thanks again for joining us.
And, you know, when we last spoke, it was about the energy trilemma and what a green energy ecosystem might look like in the future. But … today we’re going to be digging deeper into how an energy platform can sort of run that ecosystem. And also, we’ll be talking about why the platform needs to be open and what that entails.
Maybe we can dive into a little bit of this idea of [open energy platforms].
So maybe you can start just by telling me a little bit more about what do you see as the ‘energy platform,’ aspect of that and then we can get on to ‘open’ next.
But yeah, what’s involved in creating an energy platform?
Christian Gueckel: It was a customer request. They came to us. It always starts with a customer request. Conor laughs.
I mean, we don’t run lindens, we don’t run a green hydrogen plant. So, it actually came with a customer request. And they approached us with this very concrete problem: “How do we connect the full value chain?”
And the full value chain is from wind and sun, down to the energy demand. So, from volatile renewable energy to a stable supply of energy and green products. And then of course, what they also want [is to operate] at competitive cost, that always comes into place.
But this was really the challenge which triggered us. And the customer challenge, which triggered us to think about, “okay, what needs to happen?” And then we [sat] there and we discussed it with our experts. And then we came to the same conclusion, “Hey, God, there’s so many variables in the system. Who can analyze, who can absorb it?”
So, then the idea of [this] energy platform was created. And what the energy platform does [is] it basically integrates large amounts of data. So, weather forecast, plant performance, you can integrate operational conditions. I mean, it’s not only about how much energy [is needed. It’s also about:]
- How is the state of your plant right now?
- Can you run at full capacity?
- Can you run over capacity?
- Do you have maintenance in the plant?
- Do you need a shutdown?
So that all needs to be considered. Energy sourcing options, pricing obviously is very important. If you want to be competitive, you have to consider pricing. What’s the best [thing] to do now? Do I make green hydrogen because I can sell green hydrogen at a good price or do I sell the green electrons? [It all] needs to be considered in that place.
So, by bringing this all together, the platform is now meant … to orchestrate this entire ecosystem. So that was the creation from a customer request, the internal discussion, we came to this orchestration platform for the whole entire energy system.
So, for example, just give you an example [of] what the energy platform can do. So, it can decide “you have green electricity. Should it be stored in batteries? Should it be converted into hydrogen? Or should it be used for producing energy carriers like ammonia and methanol? Or should it be consumed directly?”
And all depending on the input factors: the pricing, the demand side, what are your customers needing? And that’s dynamic. So, you can, within a second, you can say, “okay, what’s best now, what’s best in the next hour, depending on the predictions.” So, this is also the key advantage: that you have this upfront modeling of your entire ecosystem.
It’s not only what is [happening] today or yesterday. You can also look ahead because weather forecasts are kind of predictable [for] the next 6, 12 hours. And you also see the demand from your supply chain [that] was coming in. What’s the electricity demand? This is all available data. And this [system] can then [be used] to simulate everything to [decide] what you’re going to do in the next 12, 14 hours.
So that’s very, very important.
What you also can do with the energy platform, that’s a very good point, because we talked about it, you have to invest in energy systems, very expensive. So, what you could do, even before you start putting the first steel or concrete in the ground, you can use the platform already with the existing data to model.
What do I need to build for my ecosystem? Let’s say you are in Europe and you want to build this energy system. You want to build a green energy system, including maybe a storage [system,] or maybe a green hydrogen [plant,] but you also want to deliver green electricity to the grid.
You can start modeling the system and say, “okay, what is good for me? What is my best setup [for] my green energy system? Do I need a better storage? Do I need a hydrogen plant, do I need a methanol plant? Depending on market dynamics, market mechanisms, demand and supply.”
So, you can even use the platform not only for the actual operation, but you can actually use it also for, before you start building a project. [Do] the first upfront simulations [to say], “Hey, the best setup I can do is ABC, and I don’t need D and E in my energy system.” And that obviously helps you a lot to optimize CAPEX and OPEX (capital and operational expenditures).
So, the energy platform came from a concrete project where somebody had an existing ecosystem already and he wanted to optimize it. That’s the [way] it started.
But it ended up, now, with something you can even use before you start building your solar farm or your windmills, plus whatever comes later. You simulate it and say, the best setup for me in terms of CAPEX and OPEX (based on my boundary conditions, based on my local requirements) is ABC.
Conor Peick: That’s fascinating.
And what it’s making me think of: So obviously—within software and as we talked with some of the folks in manufacturing and of course product design—is there’s the concept of the industrial metaverse that’s out there.
And at least conceptually, the energy platform sounds similar in that it’s orchestrating data from lots of sources and then allowing you to use it to … model your situation and try and predict maybe how you can best meet demand.
Are there any unique differences you’d like to call out between the two ideas? Or conceptually, are they pretty similar?
Christian Gueckel: Yeah, conceptually very similar. Yeah.
Conor Peick: Yeah. Nice.
So then, of course, there’s also the idea of it being open that we talked about. So maybe you can talk a little bit about: why is openness important for this energy platform? and … what does it help users do that maybe a more closed system would not be able to do.
Christian Gueckel: That’s a very good question.
I mean, open for us means really an open ecosystem. As I said, there are so many variables. And even us at Siemens, we don’t have all the best solutions. But if you have an open ecosystem, you can basically attach other tools [and] features to the energy platform [that] we don’t have in order to make it complete and most efficient.
So, that’s the reason why we created this energy platform, based on open interfaces and standards. So, it’s not a closed system where we as a company [say], “that’s our energy platform and you have to use it, you have to run it.” No, it’s an open system.
So, everybody can take it, use it, and then attach additional tools, additional features depending on his local or regional need. So, it’s basically open to all the stakeholders to other technology providers, plant operators, energy suppliers and end customers. They can all use this energy platform to add features, which maybe we don’t see, but they see and they need it, and they can attach it to [their] energy platform.
So, it’s simply [to] say, “it’s an open marketplace. It’s an open marketplace where partner solutions can be integrated. It’s not a closed system. And I think with that, you can unfold the full power of the energy platform. If it’s just limited to our own portfolio, I think we would not take the full advantage.
And that’s the reason why we said, “we created [it] open.” We let other people include their features in that. So that also fits very well to actually what we do in [the Siemens Xcelerator] approach, where we use partner products and solutions built into our digital foundation.
It’s not uncommon in Siemens that we do it this way, because we don’t have all the solutions for [a customer’s] needs. So, if you close it, you [will] leave [those opportunities] aside. And that’s one of the reasons why we define this [as open energy platforms].
Conor Peick: Yeah. Of course, it…
The idea of openness then makes me think about how do you protect users’ data as well? Because obviously that’s, I’m sure, something that they (the customer) would be concerned about is that other actors aren’t able to gain access to things they shouldn’t have access to.
Is there some sort of, I don’t know, siloing that goes on to make sure that everyone’s data is secure?
Christian Gueckel: Absolutely right.
Cybersecurity is a very important topic. So, what we do, what we offer with the energy platform, you can either install it locally and store your data locally, or you can use a cloud solution. Both [are] available depending on what [are] your needs in terms of cybersecurity.
I guess cloud solutions these days are very safe. I mean, think about how you use your private data, how you use all these tools like LinkedIn, WhatsApp, whatever. That all ends up in the cloud. But you can [be] very protective.
But we understand cybersecurity is a very, very important topic. So, we offer both solutions. You can have it stored locally, so it’s not going out. You just get data in, but you don’t get data out. Or you use a cloud solution.
Both [are] possible depending on what the customer needs.
Conor Peick: Nice.
So then, as we wrap up our discussion here today, What is the timeline for this open [energy platforms]? Is it still under development?
How is it progressing, I suppose?
Christian Gueckel: Well, the platform is already established, and we have the first use cases and plants operating today. That’s good.
But this is not the end of the journey. For us, the energy platform is an ongoing journey because as technology develops, as our data capabilities develop as AI (artificial intelligence) develops, we need to develop this platform.
So that will be a continuous development from our side but mainly based on what the customer will bring to us. What are the customer needs? What are the changing needs? And then we will integrate them into our energy platform.
And also … we should not forget, technology is also developing. We touched a lot of technologies today. But they’re [emerging more]. They’re not integrated in the platform today. And this is what we need to integrate in the future.
So, [to] sum it up, it’s there, it’s existing, it’s running [with] customers. They’re the first use cases established. But for us, the energy platform is something where we are so passionate about it. That for us, it’s a continuous journey to drive it because we see the energy platform really as a key enabler to make the energy transition [happen] and to make the energy transition competitive.
Conor Peick: Yeah, and I love that you brought up AI there. Just briefly. Is there anything else you can tell us about that or is that a spoiler for the future?
Christian Gueckel: No, AI is real. I mean, industrial AI becomes very important.
And what we do in our energy platform, but also in other models and so on, we always use a combination of first principle kinetics, physics, together with data-driven models. And I think this is very important because not everything is explored.
And with these AI tools or data-driven models, you can build up models much faster. You don’t have to go back to the lab. You don’t have to [do] a lot of experiments and so on. So, AI is certainly an enabler, and it is an accelerator for us to come up with new models, better models, much faster compared to the past.
So, it’s (AI) a reality already. It’s integrated [into] the energy platform. It’s always, or in most cases, still backed up with physics, first principle kinetics. I mean, you have a lot of chemistry involved there. And I think this combination is very powerful to make sure the models are correct, as precise as possible.
So, AI is real, and it’s really a key enabler and accelerator for us.
Conor Peick: Yeah. We so often hear about human in the loop. In this case, it’s like physics in the loop. Both laugh.
Christian Gueckel: Right, Yeah. Both laugh.
Conor Peick: So that’s great. Both laugh.
And that’s all the time we have for today.
A huge thank you once again to Christian, for sharing his valuable insights on the podcast and talking about:
- The concept of [open energy platforms],
- How it supports data orchestration, and
- Why AI will also be crucial to its development.
And of course, a huge thank you to you, the listener, for tuning in and joining us. We hope that you’ll join us again soon on the Future Ready Podcast.
To learn more, read: Green energies and hydrogen: Using simulation to design systems and coupling the system model to the PLC for control evaluation.
Conor Peick – Moderator
Conor Peick is a Marketing Professional helping to create forward-looking content for the Thought Leadership team at Siemens Digital Industries Software. Conor collaborates with seasoned industry experts and executives to produce podcasts, articles, blogs, and other forms of content focused on the trends and challenges companies face in the future, and the technologies that may provide solutions.
Connect with Conor on LinkedIn
Christian Gueckel – Head of Verticals Chemicals and Energy at Siemens Digital Industries
Christian Gueckel is the Head of Vertical Chemicals and Energy at Siemens Digital Industries. In this role, he is responsible for sales operations within the vertical.
Prior to joining Siemens, Gueckel spent more than ten years at the specialty chemicals company Clariant in various management positions, including Head of Strategy and Marketing. He also earned his PhD in inorganic chemistry from the Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich.
