{"id":366,"date":"2009-12-10T15:11:26","date_gmt":"2009-12-10T22:11:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.mentor.com\/verificationhorizons\/?p=366"},"modified":"2026-03-27T08:45:27","modified_gmt":"2026-03-27T12:45:27","slug":"ceda-dtc","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/2009\/12\/10\/ceda-dtc\/","title":{"rendered":"Zombie Alert! (Can the CEDA DTC \u201cUser Voice\u201d Be Heard When They Won\u2019t Let You Listen)"},"content":{"rendered":"

Back to the Future; Unleash the Past<\/strong><\/h3>\n

No, I\u2019m not talking about the Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd movie<\/a>. Nor am I a talking about unleashing zombies from the Zombieland<\/a> to make the present the dead past.\u00a0 I\u2019ve given more thought to the DTC after reading some questions Brian Bailey asked in his \u201cI don\u2019t understand this new IEEE EDA User group<\/a>.\u201d <\/em>His post that led me to dig deeper, ask questions and issue a Zombie Alert<\/a>.\u00a0 (OK, the zombie alert is just humor.)<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>It appears that after more than a decade the Design Technology Council (DTC) has announced<\/a> it has abandoned Si2 in favor of IEEE CEDA<\/a> (Council on EDA) and it has changed its name to the Design Technology Committee.\u00a0 It keeps the DTC acronym, presumably in a move to save on a redo of letterhead. (OK, I can\u2019t resist a bit of sarcasm.)<\/p>\n

The announcement made me think we are either going back to the future or unleashing the dead past.\u00a0 Watch out \u2013 the zombies just might just be on the loose.<\/p>\n

Given that CEDA is a collection of IEEE Societies that are replete with immense technical talent and brainpower to help address next generation design issues, the DTC may well be in a better home.\u00a0 They also intend to interact with other standards setting organization as well.\u00a0 For these reasons, I think think this is a great move!<\/p>\n

Yet, when I read the whole of their press release again, I\u2019m left with skepticism that was only fed by Brian\u2019s words on the topic as well.<\/p>\n

1.\u00a0\u00a0 Captive EDA Represents themselves as the User and Commercial EDA as not?
\n<\/span><\/strong>Are they really users?\u00a0 The corporate affiliations of the DTC members is impressive! Their corporations are associated with some of the most advanced designs being done today. If anyone knows hard problems, they do.\u00a0 If anyone wants solutions, EDA should listen to them.<\/p>\n

But when I read the titles of the current members I see a majority of them have CAD or EDA in them.\u00a0 Are they actually designers or Captive EDA representatives?\u00a0 Is Captive EDA any different from a Commercial EDA company?\u00a0 (I came from a Captive EDA group to Mentor Graphics, so I have some history here.\u00a0 Maybe that\u2019s a topic of a future blog.)<\/p>\n

Is this action to form inside CEDA being taken due to a lack of technology response by Commercial EDA or to represent Captive EDA self-interests?\u00a0 Can Captive EDA be seen as yet another middleman in a vendor\/supplier relationship?\u00a0 Does that promote business efficiency of is it suboptimal?<\/p>\n

Can a closed group like this that segregates Captive and Commercial EDA be seen as restraining and hampering trade?\u00a0 Or could it be that Captive EDA seeks to be a focal point for Commercial EDA business relationships to rationalize its existence?\u00a0 I do note that Gary Smith has presented his findings on a resurgence of Captive EDA. One can only conclude the resurgence is borne out of necessity and lack of Commercial EDA to address some pressing technical design challenges.<\/p>\n

2.\u00a0\u00a0 Something \u201cNEW\u201d<\/em> was announced; but it is the same \u201cOLD\u201d<\/em> thing<\/span><\/strong>
\nCan a group that announces it is new by concealing its past be that trusted?\u00a0 I\u2019ve seen some blog comments that support a conclusion of confusion.\u00a0 Questions are asked is the DTC still in Si2?\u00a0 Does the industry need another DTC?<\/p>\n

The truth is this group is has been around for a long time, not \u201cnewly formed\u201d as they would suggest to all. The simple fact is the DTC moved.\u00a0 Concealing this information makes no sense to me.\u00a0 It just heightens my suspicion.<\/p>\n

3.\u00a0\u00a0 It is a CLOSED group<\/span>
\n<\/strong>The press release says they \u201cconsists of leaders exclusively<\/span> from semiconductor and systems companies who use EDA tools.\u201d\u00a0 And they seek to expand as they say \u201cnominations for new members are actively being solicited.\u201d<\/p>\n

Don\u2019t get me wrong. I think it is great the DTC explores ways to rejuvenate itself and drive greater self relevance. It is good they have made a call for nominations for additional members. The DTC needs<\/em> to expand their ranks as they are more cloistered in their configuration and out of touch with the current design practice in the world.<\/p>\n

While no one group may be able to address all problems and solve all issues at once, a group that does not have representatives that play important roles in an age of design reuse where IP suppliers are important or when it does not represent the swelling ranks of programmable logic designers, it is not relevant to the majority of design practice today.<\/p>\n

Since EDA vendors are not<\/strong> invited to participate, may I offer this thought through this venue: Don\u2019t stay parochial. Don\u2019t go back to the past. Recognize the future encompasses more than who you have been or are today. The challenges of a majority of designers globally should be part of your focus as you encourage interoperable design flows.\u00a0 To be the voice, you must be the body.<\/p>\n

4.\u00a0\u00a0 The DTC will communicate; but they will make it hard for anyone to hear what they say.
\n<\/span><\/strong>How can a group that is to be the voice of users be heard when they are closed?<\/p>\n

If they want to be the user voice, what have they said the past decade?\u00a0 The voice of the user<\/em> has been center to their theme since their inception under Si2.\u00a0 Yet there is no easily found record of the users\u2019 voice being recorded.\u00a0 Even Google<\/a> has a hard time to find any recording of this.\u00a0 It can find the promise to be the voice<\/em> way back to 2001<\/a>, but no recording of the actual voice.<\/p>\n

Is a long standing promise unfulfilled just hallow when committed to today?<\/p>\n

5.\u00a0\u00a0 Are the proposed DTC business models anti-competitive?<\/span>
\n<\/strong>The DTC says in their press release they will \u201ccommunicate with each other \u2026 [on] business models through which [they] access design tools.”\u00a0 Yet such an action in the opposite direction (all EDA vendors getting together to say how they will sell) would be seen as anti-competitive and a restraint of trade.<\/p>\n

Collective price negotiation is potentially anti-competitive if it results in the exercise of market power by buyers.\u00a0 Are the large EDA consumers banding together to exert monopsony<\/a> power to create a buyer\u2019s monopoly?<\/p>\n

The DTC Vice-Chair, Thomas Harms, is looking to both grow DTC membership (users-only) and start a business model discussion on Twitter. Could those membership actions make the DTC a more powerful buyers collective? A conversation on business models has already been started on Twitter.\u00a0 Thomas<\/a> and Cadence CMO<\/a> have exchanged thoughts, as have many others.\u00a0 In one of Thomas\u2019 tweets, it seems there is some thought that the world would be better if there was one of anything from EDA to bring to a halt the duplicating of products and the waste of R&D resources.\u00a0 Humm, are we soon to see one CPU architecture and one supplier, one semiconductor fabricator, one IP supplier, one bus interconnect model \u2013 one\u00a0 of everything?<\/p>\n

\"HarmsTweet\" <\/a><\/p>\n

Is IEEE CEDA\u2019s goal to foster collective bargaining on the part of buyers?\u00a0 Can you guess if this is where I want my IEEE dues and profits from the Design Automation Conference being spent?<\/p>\n

My Hope
\n<\/strong>Go Forward to the Future. Unleash the Present. Don\u2019t call all zombies from the past back to life.\u00a0 Become an active voice of the users.\u00a0 Share what you learn with all.\u00a0 From where I sit, we seek input from a wide body of users.\u00a0 We hope this group joins a larger community of users who seek more from EDA, give advice to EDA and in turn get more as we listen to you.<\/p>\n

You have my ear….<\/p>\n

What do you think?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Back to the Future; Unleash the Past No, I\u2019m not talking about the Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd movie….<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":71541,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"spanish_translation":"","french_translation":"","german_translation":"","italian_translation":"","polish_translation":"","japanese_translation":"","chinese_translation":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[369,732],"industry":[],"product":[],"coauthors":[],"class_list":["post-366","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-news","tag-business-model","tag-standards"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/366","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/71541"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=366"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/366\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":14720,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/366\/revisions\/14720"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=366"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=366"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=366"},{"taxonomy":"industry","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/industry?post=366"},{"taxonomy":"product","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/product?post=366"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/verificationhorizons\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=366"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}