{"id":4137,"date":"2022-04-20T06:00:41","date_gmt":"2022-04-20T10:00:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/?p=4137&#038;preview=true&#038;preview_id=4137"},"modified":"2026-03-26T15:03:16","modified_gmt":"2026-03-26T19:03:16","slug":"shift-founder-toby-russell-on-the-digital-transformation-of-used-car-sales-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/on-the-move\/shift-founder-toby-russell-on-the-digital-transformation-of-used-car-sales-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Shift founder Toby Russell on the digital transformation of used car sales &#8211; Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<h2 class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-heading\" id=\"engineering-an-electric-drive-truck-that-drives-across-the-most-challenging-terrain-on-earth\" style=\"font-size:34px\"><strong>Buying a used car doesn&#8217;t have to be a bad experience<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"row podcast-social\">\n    <div class=\"col-12 col-sm-2\"><p>Follow us on:<\/p><\/div>\n    <div class=\"col\">\n        <a class=\"button itunes-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-future-car-a-siemens-podcast\/id1435259964\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">iTunes<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button google-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBpcHBhLmlvL3B1YmxpYy9zaG93cy81YjhmMjdmMDYzNDg2ZWM1MWY4ZjI4ZTQ\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Google Podcasts<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button spotify-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/3A0NqY8p2lHxcneSxLfkcV?si=q7HVVJYtTeGPdOmyAF23pQ\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Spotify<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button stitcher-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/podcast\/the-future-car-a-siemens-podcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Stitcher<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button tunein-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/podcasts\/Technology-Podcasts\/The-Future-Car-p1154372\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">TuneIn<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button rss-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/feeds.acast.com\/public\/shows\/5b8f27f063486ec51f8f28e4\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">RSS<\/a>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\">  <\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image is-style-default\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"535\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1-1024x535.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-4387\" srcset=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1-1024x535.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1-600x314.jpg 600w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1-768x401.jpg 768w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1-900x470.jpg 900w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Buying a used car doesn&#8217;t have to be a bad experie<strong>nce<\/strong><\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For most people buying a used car is an unpleasant experience that they only go through because they have to.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>All the haggling and sometimes \u2018clever\u2019 misrepresentation of the vehicle\u2019s value add up to create a bad experience. And buying a new car isn\u2019t a great experience either, especially when you consider the drastic depreciation right after driving off the parking lot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>None of the two happens because it\u2019s impossible to get value for money when buying a car. It happens because the murky process benefits the salespeople involved by allowing them to take advantage of their customers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, the first part out of two, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/edward-bernardon-922442\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ed Bernardon<\/a> interviews <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/tobyrussell1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Toby Russell<\/a>, founder and former CEO of <a href=\"https:\/\/shift.com\/buy\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Shift<\/a>. He\u2019ll share with us how his company creates a great customer experience in the used car market. He\u2019ll also share with us how the \u2018customer forward approach\u2019 helped them in creating a successful business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n<div id=\"accordion\" class=\"podcast-infonotes\">\n  <div class=\"card\">\n    <div class=\"card-header\" id=\"headingOne\">\n      <span class=\"mb-0\">\n        <button class=\"btn btn-link collapsed\" data-toggle=\"collapse\" data-target=\"#collapseOne\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"collapseOne\">\n          Expand Show Notes        <\/button>\n      <\/span>\n    <\/div>\n    <div id=\"collapseOne\" class=\"collapse\" aria-labelledby=\"headingOne\" data-parent=\"#accordion\">\n      <div class=\"card-body\">\n        <p><!-- wp:paragraph --><\/p>\n<p><b>Some Questions I Ask:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Was there a personal experience that made you want to start Shift? (05:10)<\/li>\n<li>What are the secrets and pitfalls behind new car buying and selling? (09:45)<\/li>\n<li>Have you ever rejected a car because it didn\u2019t meet Shift standards? (20:00)<\/li>\n<li>What do you mean by \u201cworking back from the customer\u201d? (27:16)<\/li>\n<li>What in Shift shows the customer forward approach? (30:34)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><b>What You\u2019ll Learn in this Episode:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>The ideal used car qualities (13:30)<\/li>\n<li>Qualities of cars that can be classified under Shift Value and Shift Certified (15:01)<\/li>\n<li>The optimal used car that gives the best value for money (17:45)<\/li>\n<li>What inspired Shift to introduce car financing (24:35)<\/li>\n<li>What it took to create a great car buying experience (32:06)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><b>Connect with Toby:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/tobyrussell1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shift.com\/buy\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Shift<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><b>Connect with Ed Bernardon:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/edward-bernardon-922442\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.plm.automation.siemens.com\/global\/en\/resource\/future-car-whitepaper\/87745\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Future Car: Driving a Lifestyle Revolution<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/new.siemens.com\/global\/en\/company\/stories\/industry\/autonomous-and-connected-vehicles.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Motorsports is speeding the way to safer urban mobility<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.plm.automation.siemens.com\/global\/en\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Siemens Digital Industries Software<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><!-- \/wp:paragraph --><\/p>      <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n  <\/div>\n      <div class=\"card\">\n        <div class=\"card-header\" id=\"headingTwo\">\n        <span class=\"mb-0\">\n            <button class=\"btn btn-link collapsed\" data-toggle=\"collapse\" data-target=\"#collapseTwo\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"collapseTwo\">Expand Transcript<\/button>\n        <\/span>\n        <\/div>\n        <div id=\"collapseTwo\" class=\"collapse\" aria-labelledby=\"headingTwo\" data-parent=\"#accordion\">\n            <div class=\"card-body\"><p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, Toby, have you ever heard of this thought experiment in ethics, it\u2019s called the trolley problem. Have you ever heard of the trolley problem?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>I haven\u2019t. That sounds interesting. What is it?<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, the trolley problem is: This trolley is heading down these tracks, and it\u2019s about to have an accident where it potentially could severely injure four or five people. However, the operator can take it off that track and send it onto another track. But the problem is, when he sends it off in the other track, it might injure just a single person. So, it\u2019s sort of a thought experiment ethics thing. Here\u2019s my question. So, MIT is taking this to the next level. So, it\u2019s supposed to help with the programming of autonomous cars, they have this thing called the Moral Machine Experiment. And what they do is they pair up different types of characters, and then people can say, \u201cOh, well, if a pregnant woman was against an old person, which character would you spare?\u201d And this has been going on for a while. So, at the top of this list is a stroller, then there are children, and it works its way through doctors, athletes, all that. Now, at the very bottom of the list is, third from the bottom is dog, then second from the bottom is criminal, and at the very bottom, unfortunately, is cat. So, my question to you is, where would a used car salesman come in on this list, do you think?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Yeah, it\u2019s a funny question. I think most people, based on the surveys, would put \u201cused car salesman\u201d probably below the cat, right up there with Congressman. I think those two would be vying for least trusted in the country. And that\u2019s a perennial problem and an issue that we wanted to tackle at Shift, given that there\u2019s just a tremendous amount of distrust for the auto buying and selling experience.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Well, if there\u2019s ever a need for business, then it\u2019s to elevate the experience so that you\u2019re not dealing with a character that\u2019s pretty much at the bottom of that list.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>That\u2019s exactly right. It\u2019s funny, Shift is the second company that I co-founded; the first one was called Taxi Magic. And when I was getting into that, people said to me, \u201cWhoa! You want to become a taxi operator? That is a reviled space. That\u2019s some of the worst reputation and whatnot.\u201d And then the same thing happened when we were looking at doing used cars; \u201cHey, that\u2019s like used car salesman. It\u2019s like a meme, like a reviled space.\u201d And my take on it was this: It\u2019s not a reviled space because it is something to run away from; that means it\u2019s a huge opportunity to transform and improve. Uber, Lyft, all those come out. And amazingly, it\u2019s ground travel, it\u2019s mobility, it\u2019s rideshare, it\u2019s a sexy, really cool space. And it\u2019s the same thing that\u2019s happening with used car sales. It\u2019s a bad experience for customers but that doesn\u2019t mean you shouldn\u2019t touch it, it means you should transform it because it\u2019s got huge opportunity. The space that is at the bottom of the trolley experiment tends to be the one that says, \u201cIt\u2019s not because people don\u2019t need cars, it\u2019s not because people don\u2019t need taxis, or Congress, or cats, or dogs; It\u2019s because that needs to be transformed and made good.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Maybe that\u2019s a new use for the Moral Machine Experiment, right? To help you target businesses. A business that turns things that you hate into something that you like. There you go. No one is going to disagree with that kind of a business, I don\u2019t think.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>That\u2019s the deal.<\/p>\n<p>-intro music-<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Buying a new car should be an exciting and fun experience, but more often than not it turns into an uncomfortable back and forth with a sale person. You have little confidence that you are getting good value for your money, nor do you feel like the salesperson has your best interests in mind. All of this gets even worse when you are buying a used or pre-owned car.<\/p>\n<p>On this episode of Future Car podcast, my guest has taken the whole used car buying process virtual to radically improve the entire buying experience. Today we\u2019ll talk to Toby Russell, co-founder of Shift, and he will explain the nature of the used car buy\/sell business as it currently stands, and all the processes behind online car sales, and why his motto is \u201cFriends don\u2019t let friends buy new cars.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Welcome to the Future Car podcast. I\u2019m your host Ed Bernardon, and today we\u2019re going to look at another side of mobility and transportation, which is the buying and selling of a car. For many people, buying a car is probably the second largest, maybe even the largest investment they\u2019ll ever make, but almost always it\u2019s not the most enjoyable experience. Our guest Toby Russell, former CEO and founder for Shift, knows how to transform an experience you don\u2019t like into something you like. His company, Shift, is leveraging digitalization to transform how we buy and sell cars. He\u2019s going to tell us what it took to really make Shift happen and why it was so sorely needed. Toby, welcome to The Future Car podcast.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Thanks for having me, Ed, really appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Well, let\u2019s start off. You can tell us a little bit about what Shift is all about. And really, as I was saying, buying and selling a used car isn\u2019t the most pleasant experience, and that was a big motivator for you to try and change this business. Was that something you saw generally? Or was there some personal experience that drove you to this?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>So, it definitely started with personal experience. Buying or selling a car is a big deal. Like you said, Ed, it could be one of the biggest purchases you make in your life, and it\u2019s something that I found to be terrible. I would look at going and buying a car, and frankly, I found it terrifying. The idea that a dealer would know a ton more about the thing, it\u2019s a complex machine, that there\u2019s a market with all kinds of dynamics and I\u2019d have no ability to understand it and the only person that could tell me whether or not I was getting a good deal was the person who had all kinds of incentives to make sure that I didn\u2019t get a good deal, it just terrified me. I was like, \u201cThis scares me like crazy.\u201d A lot of my personal experience started with actually selling a car. I\u2019d bought a car from a dealer, and I went back to that same dealer to trade in the car and look to work with him some more and get another car. And I bought the thing for something like $25,000. For me, that was a lot of money at the time. And I came back to trade it back, and they\u2019re like, \u201cYeah, I\u2019ll give you $13k for it.\u201d And I said, \u201cWait a minute, that seems like a big gap. Like, really?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>How much time between the $25K and $13K?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>I think a few years \u2013 so that\u2019s legit. I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, there\u2019s some depreciation and some change on that. But let me look at what you\u2019re selling my car for \u2013 same make, model, year \u2013 online.\u201d And they were listing, essentially, my car for $18,000 to $19,000. And I looked at that, and I said, \u201cWell, hang on. I get that my car is depreciated, but you\u2019re going to list this thing for $19,000.\u201d And they said, \u201cYeah, well, we\u2019re not so sure.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m pretty sure. I\u2019m seeing dozens and dozens of my \u2014\u201d This wasn\u2019t an uncommon vehicle. This was a very common car. It was actually a BMW 328i. And there was a big splurge for me to go out and get that thing, and it was when I was early in my career. And I thought, \u201cHey, this would be like a really great car to have.\u201d And you guys are selling dozens of them, and they\u2019re all listed within like an $800 spread. And I was like, \u201cI\u2019m pretty sure you\u2019re gonna sell this for $18,000 to $19,000, and you\u2019re offering me $13,000. That\u2019s a big gap.\u201d And they said, \u201cWell, we can\u2019t be sure that it will sell for that. We don\u2019t know if the car is good or not.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, I\u2019m pretty sure. How about we do this: You guarantee me $13,000, and if it sells for more, we\u2019ll split the difference. We\u2019ll share on the upside.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cWe don\u2019t do that.\u201d And I said, \u201cOkay, then we will.\u201d And that was the first product that we offered at Shift was a consignment structure where we would actually allow people to get a guarantee, and then we would split the upside. Now, for a bunch of reasons, we moved away from that. People wanted full money upfront, and I understand that. And so we moved over to a more traditional \u201cpush a button and get the money right away\u201d everything upfront. But we wanted to align ourselves with the seller and with the buyer. And the way we did that was we looked for not new cars \u2014 it turns out new cars are a trap; we can talk about that in a moment, Ed. It\u2019s like one of the grand conspiracies in auto retail. I jokingly say, \u201cFriends don\u2019t let friends buy new cars.\u201d But used cars, and we really look to align with the used cars that someone else has been driving. Ideally, one owner and no accident, strong options package but older \u2013 three to eight years old. That\u2019s your dream car, that\u2019s like your gem. It\u2019s a sweet spot that I never even knew existed or that you needed to have, and we built an entire company around that. And the reason is because that\u2019s the curated vehicle; those are the vehicles that you really want. And we realized we could create a great deal for the seller of the vehicle and a great deal for the buyer of the vehicle and cut out the middleman. And that\u2019s where the magic happened.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I have so many questions I want to ask you about what you were just saying. But what happened on your \u201cHey, we\u2019re offering you a $13,000.\u201d And then you went back. What happened in the end on that deal?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>It\u2019s a great question. I didn\u2019t sell the car. I held on to that car for many, many years. Until a point, where \u2013 I was in San Francisco at the time \u2013 a friend of mine and I were going to go take a trip up to do a visit to Wine Country up in Napa. And she was like, \u201cUh, how about we take my car not yours?\u201d And I was like, \u201cWhy?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t trust your car anymore. It\u2019s gotten pretty old.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOkay, fine.\u201d And so I bought a new car and I sold that car on Shift.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>It\u2019s a sure sign it\u2019s time to sell your car when your friends won\u2019t go in it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>When your friends are like, \u201cUh, how about we take my car?\u201d Part of the thing was I held on to the car and I was like, \u201cI\u2019m gonna keep this thing.\u201d But I eventually I wanted us to mature the Shift product enough, and I said, \u201cFair enough.\u201d I bought a car through Shift and I traded in my BMW.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Let\u2019s start with the new car because a car is new before it can be used, and maybe you can reveal, peel back the onion here on what are some of the secrets, pitfalls about new car buying and selling.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Here\u2019s the thing. I\u2019m going to go on my mini-rant on this, Ed, and this isn\u2019t maybe true everywhere across the board but it\u2019s surprisingly true today. And that is, when you go to buy a new car, disproportionately, you haggle to buy that car. Like, have you ever walked into an Apple Store and haggled to buy an Apple computer?<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>No, but we take it for granted. We accept that. But we try and arm ourselves with information by Blue Book price or percent under the dealer list or whatever it is, all this info you can get on the internet.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>And the thing is, this is a brand new vehicle; it\u2019s just come off the line, there\u2019s an MSRP (Manufacturer Standard Recommended Price), and yet you\u2019re going to go in and haggle. You\u2019re going to go back and forth and argue and fight. And the reality is, what\u2019s going on there is price discrimination \u2013 that\u2019s the term in economics that\u2019s used. The seller of the thing is saying, \u201cHow do I maximize how much I can get for this thing from this person?\u201d It\u2019s not standard curves. It\u2019s not average costing. It\u2019s individual, point-by-point maximization known as price discrimination. Now, here\u2019s the thing, the nature of discrimination is that it discriminates. Guess who loses in that equation? Disproportionately \u2013 wait for it \u2013 women, people of color, and people who are new to car buying. It is an actively discriminatory system in the largest retail sector in the country. And that is auto sales.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Second largest thing you might ever buy. And it\u2019s discriminatory pricing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>That\u2019s crazy. The fact that we allow that active discrimination for this huge purchase, I find to be just unthinkable. It\u2019s crazy. Especially in the internet age, when you theoretically could run auctions if you really wanted to do a fair bid-ask system, you name it. But the net of it is, I found that to be a scary and incredibly discriminatory system. But \u2013 and here\u2019s the real secret, and this is why it\u2019s a trap \u2013 even if you win in that negotiation, let\u2019s say you \u201cwin\u201d, and most consumers walk in believing that it\u2019s a zero-sum game \u2013 that is one person wins, one person loses \u2013 and that they\u2019re either going to win or lose or be taken advantage of. Let\u2019s say you go and you buy that new car and you win, you get the bottom price the dealer is possibly able to part with that vehicle for. The second you drive that thing off the lot \u2013 and there\u2019s the trap \u2013 it depreciates by thousands of dollars, because it just went from being a new car to a used car. So, it\u2019s a trap because you think you can win the negotiation. But even if you \u201cwin\u201d \u2013 and most people don\u2019t \u2013 you still lose thousands of dollars just driving it off the lot. That\u2019s why I say, \u201cFriends don\u2019t let friends buy new cars.\u201d It\u2019s a terrible value.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Oh, that\u2019s interesting because, basically, the price of that vehicle, you\u2019ve driven it 10 yards, a few feet, and it\u2019s like you\u2019ve thrown thousands of dollars out of the window.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>The fact that that went from zero owners to one owner, the fact that it just went from being a new car to a used car, and in the distribution from the original equipment manufacturer or the OEM to the retailer, to the consumer; there\u2019s effectively tremendous value destruction there. What\u2019s happening is there\u2019s a lot of depreciation through that chain, and we just kind of say, \u201cHey, look, it\u2019s okay to have depreciation, let someone else have that, buy that car.\u201d Three years later, you\u2019re going to buy that car for 30-40% discount, maybe not that much but thousands and thousands of dollars less for functionally the same vehicle, and you can come out ahead, if you can find that car, it\u2019s a hard car to find. And that\u2019s why we built Shift to be the machine that finds that car and gets it to people.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Well, let\u2019s talk about that sweet spot because it sounds like if you wait three years, the depreciation continues. But you don\u2019t want to wait too long, I imagine, because then the car is getting old, and it might have problems. So, is that like a good crossover point between depreciation and still functioning not exactly new but much like a new car?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>That\u2019s right. So, what you want to look for is a vehicle, ideally, that has three to four years because that would be the steepest part of the depreciation curve, that is the rate at which it loses money or loses value has kind of leveled off. And you also want to look for 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year on the vehicle. Because if a car is being driven 20,000, 30,000 miles a year, it\u2019s getting overused and it\u2019s getting burnt out. That\u2019s like if you\u2019re buying a former rental car. You\u2019re gonna see a rental car come off be defleeted from a rental fleet, you\u2019ll see it\u2019ll be a year or two old and it\u2019s going to have like 30,000, 40,000 miles in a year or two. That\u2019s crazy. You don\u2019t want that, because that means that car has been overworked. By the way, rental cars will have slim options, like not good packages on them anyway. So, you\u2019re going to get kind of a bad deal. That\u2019s a newer car that has a lot of miles, so the price hasn\u2019t come down but you\u2019re paying a lot for a car that\u2019s not strong options, etc. What you want is the opposite. What you want is a car that\u2019s like three, four, maybe up to eight years old, that has 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year; ideally, one owner, no accidents \u2014 but there can be a couple of owners and not have any major frame damage or anything along those lines. That\u2019s what you really want to look for in a vehicle.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Now, let\u2019s say you\u2019re towards the back end of that seven, eight years, 10,000 miles per year, starting to get up to 70,000 &#8211; 80,000 miles. You can still get a good car with 70,000 &#8211; 80,000 miles on it, you think? It\u2019s worth an investment?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Definitely. At Shift, we even created an entire branded program. The core Shift vehicle, the vast majority are what we call Shift Certified. We do 150-point inspection because we want to be able to say, \u201cHey, this car is used but it\u2019s quality.\u201d Because that\u2019s the problem, everybody would buy used cars because people figure out the new car trap, and they\u2019d say, \u201cI\u2019ll just buy used.\u201d But the issue is, you\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what I\u2019m gonna get. Am I gonna get a lemon? How can I know this car is good?\u201d And it\u2019s hard. It\u2019s hard to find that trust because the \u201cused car salesman fly by night\u201d kind of a meme. So, that was the \u201cbreak the revile practice.\u201d Just as like Uber, Lyft, I would think, Taxi Magic started transforming the taxi space, we\u2019re seeing that transformation in the used car space because you see folks that will actually do a certification and have a brand and stand behind it. So, you do want to have like \u2014 we have the concept of a Shift Certified car. There\u2019s a separate concept that we created, and it was called the Shift Value car. Many cars, even when older, can still be great. What does that mean? If you\u2019ve got like a Toyota or a Honda, those things are going to run 100,000-150,000 miles. So, over eight years old and 80,000 miles, right around that time is when maintenance problems start happening. So, you want to be careful about buying more finicky or luxury cars, disproportionately European imports is going to be a little bit your more danger zone in those older vehicles. But if you\u2019re getting something like a Toyota, Honda, disproportionately Asian makes that tend to run for a very long time and be very reliable, you can get a great deal in that space. And they\u2019re gems, what we call value vehicles in that zone. If you select for them and find the right car, you can get a great vehicle. I personally am right now driving a car that I bought from Shift. It\u2019s a Honda CRV, that thing\u2019s got 130,000 miles on it, still driving it. It\u2019s like a 2008, and it\u2019s good, still works. There\u2019s goodness there you can find.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>How many miles when you bought it?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>I want to say I bought it at something like 70,000 or 80,000 probably, must have been four or five years ago. So, we put a decent amount of miles on the thing in the last few years. But the point is, it\u2019s reliable, still running, will do well. Now, it\u2019s a more expensive vehicle, but the lore in the industry, of course, is something like Toyota Land Cruiser; people are still driving those things from the 1970s and the \u201880s, like 200,000 to 300,000 miles, if properly maintained. And there are certain European cars you can do that with if properly maintained. But it doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t find an older car, it just gets harder and harder to find the gems in that case. And so you need to have a good eye and selection for that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And there\u2019s not one-size-fits-all. If you think about some of the things you just said is, \u201cAll right, let somebody else buy that new one and take all the depreciation and find that sweet spot,\u201d which can vary depending on the kind of car is. Like you said, if it\u2019s an Asian car maybe can last a lot longer. But you do have to find it. And by the way, I want a blue one, and I want it with these features and this and that. So, the finding of this car in the sweet spot with all the options you want \u2013 it\u2019s not so easy. And it sounds like that\u2019s a big piece of what you\u2019re trying to do here as well.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>That\u2019s exactly right. It\u2019s that finding of the car that came from a person that\u2019s not new. It\u2019s a quality used that fits into those buckets of either older but still good quality \u2013 so, it has cosmetic issues, but that brings down the price a bunch \u2014 so you\u2019re going to, in absolute terms, get a cheaper vehicle \u2014 or a little bit newer, but not new, that is what we call Shift Certified. Or a quality vehicle that you can trust but that depreciation curves come off of so you can get a great value. And in both of those cases, those are kind of the, as they say in economics, that Pareto optimal. Those are the spots where you want to play and get a vehicle because you\u2019re going to get a great vehicle for a good price, and you\u2019re not going to get taken advantage of. That comes back to your earlier point of the meme \u201ccar salesman or used car salesman\u201d \u2013 the definition is you feel like you\u2019re getting taken advantage of. We built Shift around those two different sweet spots where you don\u2019t get taken advantage of. The whole concept is that this time I win as a buyer or a seller. And the reason was, we had had bad experiences in the industry, being like, \u201cThis thing\u2019s terrible. It\u2019s rigged for failure.\u201d And so we wanted to build a machine, so to speak, a company that could do that finding and make it really easy to access those sweet spot vehicles. Now, as a result, something like 60% of the cars that Shift buys don\u2019t go to consumer; only about 40% of the cars that are bought are selected for being those high-quality, retail-ready vehicles. That\u2019s part of the reality of what it takes to be able to curate the sweet spot cars for people is that most cars actually are not sweet spot cars, 60% of those are not going to make it to a consumer or meet the Shift standards.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>When you\u2019re doing these inspections, did you ever inspect a car and say, \u201cHey, this isn\u2019t gonna cut it. It doesn\u2019t meet our standards.\u201d And then you say, \u201cSorry, we\u2019re not going to take it. We\u2019re not selling this on our system.\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>That does happen. And we can find that out at one of two stages. So, in the very beginning, we have certain retail guidelines and cut-offs. It depends, as we were talking about earlier: make, model, year. So, for a Toyota Civic, we\u2019ll accept a car that has higher miles on it. For an older Jaguar, we\u2019re not going to take those older Jaguars, those tend to have trouble. So, that\u2019s the first cut, is the retail guidelines. There\u2019s a second cut, where we actually do the inspection. If the car doesn\u2019t make the cut, what we do either right away on the website or if there\u2019s an issue, we\u2019ll work with the consumer on it; we flag it and we say, \u201cHey, this car is not going to be retail-ready, so what we can do is we can take it directly to auction for you and sell it for you. So, we\u2019re not going to be able to retail it. You will get a lower price for it because we\u2019re going to take and sell it at auction because that way we\u2019ll wholesale it. It doesn\u2019t make the Shift gems list, but we still will take it and we\u2019ll give you cash for it. And we can help you get out of that vehicle if you want.\u201d And people make that choice every day. That is part of building the machine, the system to curate for vehicles that people want. At the same time, is getting a seller, any seller, a price for their vehicle, that is a good price that Shift can stand behind.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>If I\u2019m the seller, I suppose once it\u2019s sold, you take a percentage.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Well, as a seller, you\u2019re paid cash upfront.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Oh, so you\u2019ll buy the car from me?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>We just buy the car, yeah. I mentioned that earlier, when Shift first got started, we did kind of a consignment structure. We did away with that because most people, like 80% of folks selling their car were like, \u201cLook, I just want cash upfront. I just want to be done because I\u2019m going to go and buy another car.\u201d And so we moved over that. So, Shift buys the car outright, forward money.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, then if it turns out it doesn\u2019t cut it from a mechanical standpoint, then you say, \u201cHey, look, we can only give you this much because we\u2019re going to take it to auction.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>We usually detect that right away when you get a quote. Occasionally \u2013 and this is pretty rare, but theoretically, it can happen \u2013 we\u2019ll take the car in and we\u2019ll discover that it has significant frame damage or some other issue. If a buyer didn\u2019t know, or knew and didn\u2019t represent that they had significant frame damage or massive engine problems, we\u2019ll say, \u201cHey, look, the thing\u2019s got significant frame damage or massive engine problems. We can bring the car back to you or we\u2019ll take it to auction for you, whichever way you want, your call.\u201d But part of the deal is you have to actually represent anything that\u2019s major. If it\u2019s minor, things like cosmetic issues, etc. That happens a lot \u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>More scratches than they said it had.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Scratches and issues, minor stuff. We have a whole reconditioning team, ASE-certified mechanics. They\u2019ll work on the cars and they do a great job in all of our hubs across the country, bringing those cars up to our retail guidelines. So, there\u2019s a tremendous amount of work that goes into each car to do that because there are going to be things with a car, it might need brake replacements, new tires. In my case, I sold an Audi to Shift, it needed the turbo replaced. These things happen, that\u2019s required, and we want to get certified. But if it\u2019s something major, the equivalent of selling a house and you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, actually, the foundation is completely destroyed, and it has been for many years.\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cWell, that\u2019s kind of a problem.\u201d You either have to know that or represent it, otherwise, that gets to be the point up into the zone of \u201cI\u2019m going to sell you a car. But it\u2019s not really a car, it\u2019s actually a bike.\u201d And you\u2019re like, \u201cWell, it\u2019s got to actually be a car.\u201d So, it can\u2019t be, fundamentally, not what one said it was, but short of that. And that, again, would be a very rare case. The vast majority of the time, what we call our retail guidelines, handle that online.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Well, it\u2019s good to hear that it is rare, that most people are honest in how they represent the cars that they\u2019re selling.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>About two things happen. One, it\u2019s hard to do something like damage the frame of a car. And it\u2019s pretty hard to not know that you\u2019ve been in a major accident. You find out when you\u2019re in a major accident, to bend the frame of a vehicle, as an example. And there are reporting structure services, things like CARFAX, AutoCheck, that when major work is done, usually or generally, the repair shops will report that as related to the vehicle, so you can then look and check, \u201cHey, has this car been in any major accidents, had major damage to it?\u201d And that tends to correlate with anything really significant like, again, frame damage is a big one.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, you find me a good car, you make sure that it\u2019s working well. And then now there\u2019s the whole back end: financing, warranties, delivery. So, that\u2019s a whole other piece of that business.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>When we first got going with Shift, buyers were like, \u201cThis is amazing. We love it.\u201d We would do this thing, where we bring the car to the customer\u2019s home to test drive and people are like, \u201cThis is awesome. I want to buy the car. This is great. But do you have financing with that?\u201d And we were like, \u201cNope, but we\u2019re gonna figure out how to do that.\u201d That was the number one buyer request is \u201cHow do we get financing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>\u2018Cause you can get that at the dealer now when you\u2019re buying a car, that makes it very, very convenient.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Definitely. There\u2019s a bunch of stuff that dealers do to look for what is the best deal for the dealer and not for the consumer. That\u2019s a problem. And so what we did was we built out what was just a really transformative thing for, I think, the industry and certainly for Shift, and that was the first mobile point of sale for an automobile, where a consumer could apply for and get financing and warranty \u2013 that\u2019s another thing people like is warranty protection or extended warranty in real-time \u2014 and do all of that with transparency, knowing what their APR is going to be, what their monthly payment is going to be. And doing all of the contracting electronically; they\u2019re being able to sign everything on an iPad and have everything be done in real-time with e-contracting. We built that out in 2016 timeframe, and that was like a major focus of our product development at that phase. And it was really transformative for Shift as well as for consumers because it went from \u201cI love this car, this is great, but do you have financing for that?\u201d And we used to say, \u201cNo, you gotta go get a credit union or a bank, or go find outside financing, and then you can come back and you can pay for it if you need to finance it.\u201d And I believe that was just a terrible customer experience. And now it\u2019s a really great customer experience.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>You probably lose some sales with that, too.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>We were definitely. There was just friction. It was just a mess. In fact, that Honda CRV I mentioned that I bought from Shift, we didn\u2019t have that financing thing at that point, and I had to go and find an outside credit union to buy it and whatnot because I wanted to finance it. I actually think it\u2019s a good financial decision to finance a car, believe it or not. We can talk about that in terms of personal financial management and wealth. But by and large, you get relatively good options and it\u2019s a fairly liquid market. And so the idea of financing was a big deal. And now we\u2019ve set up a platform, essentially, where customers can choose from a number of financing options. I mean, everything from Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Capital One, Chase \u2013 major financing operations \u2013 and get great rates and do the whole thing in real-time with e-contracting. It\u2019s a pretty spectacular experience.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, an enjoyable, frictionless, seamless experience from A to Z with that sweet spot greatest value, but you have to wrap a business around this. And one of the things you said, which I think is very interesting \u2013 you said, \u201cYou have to work back from the customer, not forward from the business.\u201d The interest of the customer, and then there\u2019s the interest of the business, but they have to be in sync. So, what exactly do you mean by that?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>This is a very common Silicon Valley concept. A lot of businesses get built, saying, \u201cHey, let\u2019s provide what\u2019s easy for us to provide.\u201d The alternative view is, \u201cLet\u2019s figure out what our customers want and need, and let\u2019s come up with a creative, novel technical solution to enable that. And then, by creating value and meeting customer needs, we\u2019ll find a way to monetize or make that go round.\u201d And disproportionately, it actually does work that way, is understanding what consumers really need and working back. Now, I\u2019m not saying that I\u2019ve always done that. I made a massive mistake at Taxi Magic. The reason you\u2019ve heard of Uber and probably not Taxi Magic is we did the opposite. At Taxi Magic, we said, \u201cHey, what would be really interesting to build?\u201d And we went out and built something that was really interesting that we thought people would want. And there was goodness there, no doubt. And there are pieces of that, that survived to this day. Verifone bought the thing for the payments technology. And if you\u2019ve taken a cab in New York or Las Vegas, under the brand Curb \u2013 Taxi Magic has been rebranded Curb \u2013 you\u2019re probably using the payments technology we built. So, there were useful things there. But what we didn\u2019t do was really understand the user need. And the user need was not just, \u201cLet me get access to a taxi easier.\u201d That\u2019s what we created. We said, \u201cHey, how might I push a button and have a taxi come pick me up?\u201d It turned out, oftentimes, what would happen is people would say, \u201cHey, let me get that taxi.\u201d And they loved it. Especially, in places like San Francisco, because people are like, \u201cI need a taxi \u2013\u201d of which there are three \u2013 \u201cAnd I\u2019m gonna be able to push a button and skip the line, and the car will come can pick me up.\u201d When it worked, it was awesome. But the problem was, periodically, the taxi operator, the driver would see somebody on the street with a bag, that meant an airport ride, and so they choose to not pick up the Taxi Magic person who\u2019d reserved the car, and instead pick up that person off the street and take off. And that really destroyed the value prop. Turns out no taxi, no magic. And so what we realized is we couldn\u2019t control the user experience. We built a thing that plugged into the existing taxi system, people love the ability to reserve and do the whole thing electronically. But what they really wanted was a reliable taxi, not just an iPhone app.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And that\u2019s the keyword, I think, is reliable. It sounds like I could book it, and then, \u201cHey, where\u2019s my taxi?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>Turns out. And so we needed to continue iterating and innovating and realizing it wasn\u2019t just the accessing of the taxi, it was actually the taxi itself was the problem. And so Uber, Lyft, others; by creating their own network, and then curating that thing, holding drivers to service standards, actually created a better taxi experience working back from the user. That\u2019s a big deal. That\u2019s something that we reflected on a lot after Taxi Magic and brought to the concept of building Shift, saying, \u201cWe\u2019re going to work back from that user, and keep figuring out what is it that someone needs and wants, and we\u2019ll build for that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>What was the biggest thing that you incorporated into your business at Shift that shows this customer-forward approach?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>When we set out, we were like, \u201cHey, we\u2019re just going to build a technology company.\u201d Today, Shift employs hundreds of people and a tremendous variety of skill sets, including, as I mentioned, certified mechanics. We realized that in order to create that great experience, we would actually have to take physical possession of the vehicle and do work on it; auto repair and maintenance on the vehicle to improve the car. Why? People didn\u2019t just want a great shopping experience, they didn\u2019t just want a great buying and financing experience; they want a great car. And to deliver a great car, we had to go way deeper into the operational and physical improvement of that thing they may originally expected. But we did that because we believe in delivering a great product. And the great product was amazing shopping, discovery, and purchase experience in addition to a great underlying vehicle. Hence the 40% of the cars that are bought by Shift make it to the frontline, 60% don\u2019t. And most, if not all, of those cars, receive significant refurbishment whilst in Shift\u2019s hands; that\u2019s not something we expected to get into by any means at the outset. But that\u2019s something that delivered a great customer experience, and that is a great car. So, that was the deal, and different than what we would have originally anticipated.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Taking your Taxi Magic example, if someone were to ask, \u201cWell, what does Taxi Magic do?\u201d Well, we have this software that will schedule a taxi for you. It\u2019s slightly different than saying, \u201cWe\u2019re a company that will get you a ride when you need it to where you want to go.\u201d It sounds so simple when you say, \u201cOh, we\u2019re gonna make the whole car buying experience seamless and easy.\u201d But we\u2019ve talked about a lot of different pieces; you always have to keep that mission in mind is what are we really doing here? And like you said, if we don\u2019t do the financing piece, that\u2019s a big thorn in the side of the buyer. We\u2019ve got to add that. So, looking back, what was the thing that surprised you the most that you had to add to this experience that you didn\u2019t anticipate upfront?<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>I think the thing that really struck me \u2013 I\u2019m going to take this at a higher meta level \u2013 and that was, I didn\u2019t realize that to create a great car buying experience, we\u2019d have to basically build four companies within a company all at once. The four things that we had to do well are, essentially, things that there are entire companies built around just doing this. What\u2019s the first thing? Car buying. There\u2019s a company, I think it\u2019s called Auto One, they do nothing but that. In Europe, it\u2019s a huge multi-billion dollar company do nothing but car buying. So, we had to get really good at buying cars from consumers. Why? Because that\u2019s core to the value prop; being able to create that car that someone else is driving, we talked about that earlier, Ed. Don\u2019t get a new car, don\u2019t get an off-lease, rental car. Get a car that someone else was driving that is a really good vehicle. So, being able to select for and find those cars and buy them properly \u2013 hard. First business. Second business \u2013 being able to recondition those cars. There are entire businesses \u2013 Pep Boys \u2013 auto mechanics that run on nothing but auto repair. It\u2019s like the entire business is just that. So, doing large-scale auto inspection and repair, that\u2019s an entire business in of itself. It\u2019s like, \u201cWow! We\u2019re running a whole second business right there in that vertical.\u201d Third business \u2013 eCommerce \u2013 being able to merchandise and connect buyers with a product. There are whole companies, Amazon does nothing but that, top to bottom. They\u2019re merchandising and selling, and then all of the logistics of the delivery, and all of the reverse logistics of taking returns, and enabling that whole shopping and sales process is a huge business to run in and of itself. There are entire companies that do nothing. A new car seller essentially is doing just that. They\u2019re not acquiring the car, they\u2019re not repairing the car; they\u2019re just taking the car and they\u2019re selling it. That in and of itself is an entire business that is a challenge.<\/p>\n<p><b>Toby Russell: <\/b>And what\u2019s the fourth business? It is the thing we talked about earlier \u2013 the financing and warranty. There are whole companies that do nothing but auto finance. And so being able to run and enable an auto finance operation at the same time \u2013 tricky, complicated. And so, one of our engineers, early on, said, \u201cHey, no one of these things is so difficult and complicated. What\u2019s challenging \u2013\u201d and this is the thing that surprised me \u2013 \u201cWhat\u2019s challenging is doing all four simultaneously really well.\u201d And that\u2019s where the real challenge for us was building technology in each of those four to coordinate across them, as well as ensure that each one ran, continually runs and scales out well because we\u2019re running four businesses simultaneously and they\u2019re all interdependent. There\u2019s a ton of complexity to that. So, figuring out how to do that with software was hard because we had to build a lot of software to enable that across the board. And that, frankly, took half a decade. And there\u2019s a huge, in a sense, moat to being able to build that all out, because a lot of that stuff we had to do manually and at a sub-scale. It was challenging and hard, grinding work to do it well at each stage. And that was what this engineer was talking about. He was saying, \u201cHey, look, theoretically, any one of these things you could build and solve, but it\u2019s getting all four of them built out across the board takes a bunch of time, and then getting them to interoperate is tricky.\u201d That was the big surprising problem that we realized we had to do in order to create that end-to-end great experience for consumers.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>That\u2019s part one of our talk with Toby. Join us again for part 2 when we\u2019ll continue our discussion with Toby on new ways to buy and sell used cars. And as always, for more information about Siemens Digital Industries Software, make sure to visit us at plm.automation.siemens.com. And until next time, I\u2019m Ed Bernardon, and this has been The Future Car podcast.<\/p><\/div>\n        <\/div><!-- end #collapseTwo -->\n    <\/div><!-- end .card -->\n    <\/div><!-- end #accordion -->\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n<div class=\"bio-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-3 order-first bio-pic\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Toby-Russell_headshot-2.jpg\" alt=\"Toby Russell Board Director Former CEO Founder Shift \" \/>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-9 bio-info\">\n        <div class=\"bio-header\">\n            <h4 class=\"speakerintro\">Toby Russell Board Director Former CEO Founder Shift <\/h4>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-biography\">\n            <p>Toby Russell is Co-Founder of Shift\u2014which went public via SPAC\u2014the platform to make buying and selling cars simple and accessible to everyone. Previously, he was the Managing VP of Digital at Capital One, where he led the bank\u2019s technology transformation to mobile. In 2007, Toby co-founded Taxi Magic (now known as Curb), the first on-demand mobile transportation booking technology company. He also led a $12 billion renewable energy and efficiency investment program for the U.S. Department of Energy. He holds a Doctorate from Oxford University.<\/p>        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-contact\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/tobyrussell1\/ \" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Connect wtih Toby on LinkedIn<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n<div class=\"bio-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-3 order-last bio-pic\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/01\/bio-pic-eb-2.jpg\" alt=\"Ed Bernardon, Vice President Strategic Automotive Intiatives - Host\" \/>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-9 bio-info\">\n        <div class=\"bio-header\">\n            <h4 class=\"speakerintro\">Ed Bernardon, Vice President Strategic Automotive Intiatives &#8211; Host<\/h4>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-biography\">\n            <p>Ed is currently VP Strategic Automotive Initiatives at Siemens Digital Industries Software. Responsibilities include strategic planning in areas of design of autonomous\/connected vehicles, lightweight automotive structures and interiors. He is also responsible for Future Car thought leadership including hosting the Future Car Podcast and development of cross divisional projects. Previously a founding member of VISTAGY that developed light-weight structure and automotive interior design software acquired by Siemens in 2011.\u00a0 Ed holds an M.S.M.E. from MIT, B.S.M.E. from Purdue, and MBA from Butler.<\/p>        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-contact\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/edward-bernardon-922442\/  \" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Connect with Ed Bernardon Linkedin<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><strong>If you like this Podcast, you might also like:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/the-future-car\/sustainable-ev-global-circumnavigation-with-ben-scott-geddes-fering-technologies-part-1\/\">Sustainable EV Global Circumnavigation with Ben Scott-Geddes, Fering Technologies &#8211; Part 2<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/the-future-car\/carlo-mondavis-autonomous-electric-tractors-for-sustainable-affordable-farming-part-1\/\">Carlo Mondavi\u2019s Autonomous Electric Tractors for Sustainable, Affordable Farming &#8211; Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/the-future-car\/the-next-leap-for-electric-vehicles-with-will-graylin-indigo-technologies-part-1\/\">The Next Leap for Electric Vehicles with Will Graylin, Indigo Technologies \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Buying a used car doesn&#8217;t have to be a bad experience Follow us on: iTunes Google Podcasts Spotify Stitcher TuneIn&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":45480,"featured_media":5713,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"spanish_translation":"","french_translation":"","german_translation":"","italian_translation":"","polish_translation":"","japanese_translation":"","chinese_translation":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2,420],"tags":[353,348,331,321,371,362,332,349,383,402,352,354,376,333,385,379,311,312,326,375,384,360],"industry":[26,27,28,30,31,29],"product":[158,206],"coauthors":[387],"class_list":["post-4137","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-on-the-move","category-ed-bernardon","tag-ai","tag-automotive-2","tag-autonomous-vehicles","tag-design-innovation","tag-digital-future","tag-e-e-systems","tag-electric-vehicles","tag-electrical-systems","tag-electrification","tag-engineer-innovation","tag-industry-4-0","tag-machine-learning","tag-mobility","tag-nx","tag-podcast","tag-product-design","tag-simulation","tag-smart-engineering","tag-systems-modeling","tag-transportation","tag-transportation-revolution","tag-vehicle-electrification","industry-automotive-transportation","industry-automotive-oems","industry-automotive-suppliers","industry-motorcycles-bicycles-parts","industry-rail-systems","industry-trucks-buses-specialty-vehicles","product-nx","product-ses-vistagy"],"featured_image_url":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-Image-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn.jpg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4137","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/45480"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4137"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4137\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8724,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4137\/revisions\/8724"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5713"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4137"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4137"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4137"},{"taxonomy":"industry","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/industry?post=4137"},{"taxonomy":"product","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/product?post=4137"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=4137"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}