{"id":4135,"date":"2022-04-06T06:00:00","date_gmt":"2022-04-06T10:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/?p=4135&#038;preview=true&#038;preview_id=4135"},"modified":"2026-03-26T15:03:36","modified_gmt":"2026-03-26T19:03:36","slug":"zooxs-journey-to-safety-with-mark-r-rosekind-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/on-the-move\/zooxs-journey-to-safety-with-mark-r-rosekind-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Zoox\u2019s Journey to Safety with Mark R. Rosekind &#8211; Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<h2 class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-heading\" id=\"engineering-an-electric-drive-truck-that-drives-across-the-most-challenging-terrain-on-earth\" style=\"font-size:34px\"><strong>\u201cSafety isn\u2019t expensive, it&#8217;s priceless.\u201d<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n<div class=\"embed-megaphone\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm\/?e=TLFIE1497708427\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><!-- Megaphone -->\n\n\n<div class=\"row podcast-social\">\n    <div class=\"col-12 col-sm-2\"><p>Follow us on:<\/p><\/div>\n    <div class=\"col\">\n        <a class=\"button itunes-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-future-car-a-siemens-podcast\/id1435259964\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">iTunes<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button google-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBpcHBhLmlvL3B1YmxpYy9zaG93cy81YjhmMjdmMDYzNDg2ZWM1MWY4ZjI4ZTQ\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Google Podcasts<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button spotify-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/3A0NqY8p2lHxcneSxLfkcV?si=q7HVVJYtTeGPdOmyAF23pQ\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Spotify<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button stitcher-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/podcast\/the-future-car-a-siemens-podcast\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Stitcher<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button tunein-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/podcasts\/Technology-Podcasts\/The-Future-Car-p1154372\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">TuneIn<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button rss-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/feeds.acast.com\/public\/shows\/5b8f27f063486ec51f8f28e4\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">RSS<\/a>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\">  <\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image is-style-default\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"535\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1024x535.jpg\" alt=\"Safety isn\u2019t expensive, it's priceless.\" class=\"wp-image-4248\" srcset=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-1024x535.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-600x314.jpg 600w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-768x401.jpg 768w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn-900x470.jpg 900w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/Preferred-01_Siemens_Graphic_LinkedIn.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Zook&#8217;s Journey to Safety<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the Autonomous Vehicles field, safety is at the front, back and center. In fact, all the other features that are included only make sense if a vehicle is proven to be safe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s why AV companies are investing heavily in proving that their vehicles are safe. The fact that they have to meet higher safety standards has made them rethink their approach to it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, the second part out of two, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/edward-bernardon-922442\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ed Bernardon<\/a> interviews <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/mark-r-rosekind-ph-d-0009226\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mark R. Rosekind<\/a>, Chief Safety Innovation Officer at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.zoox.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Zoox, Inc<\/a>. He\u2019ll help us understand the safety features that are included in their vehicle. He\u2019ll also share with us how his vast experience in transport has helped him in his current role.<\/p>\n\n\n<div id=\"accordion\" class=\"podcast-infonotes\">\n  <div class=\"card\">\n    <div class=\"card-header\" id=\"headingOne\">\n      <span class=\"mb-0\">\n        <button class=\"btn btn-link collapsed\" data-toggle=\"collapse\" data-target=\"#collapseOne\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"collapseOne\">\n          Expand Show Notes        <\/button>\n      <\/span>\n    <\/div>\n    <div id=\"collapseOne\" class=\"collapse\" aria-labelledby=\"headingOne\" data-parent=\"#accordion\">\n      <div class=\"card-body\">\n        <p><!-- wp:paragraph --><\/p>\n<p><b>Some Questions I Ask:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>What should you do to regain alertness if you feel sleepy while driving? (06:34)<\/li>\n<li>What are the key areas that you consider when you arrive at a crash scene? (10:41)<\/li>\n<li>What exactly are you doing to make the stopping distance shorter? (22:51)<\/li>\n<li>How do you make the vehicle safe in case a system failure occurs? 24:29)<\/li>\n<li>What needs to be done to our current infrastructure to make AVs safer? (29:17)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><b>What You\u2019ll Learn in this Episode:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>What inspired Mark to pursue the field of safety (00:41)<\/li>\n<li>The difference between NHTSA and NTSB (08:56)<\/li>\n<li>The differences between how regulators and AV companies approach safety (12:14)<\/li>\n<li>The most significant safety innovations by Zoox (17:05)<\/li>\n<li>How Zoox uses simulation to test their AV (26:21)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><b>Connect with Mark R. Rosekind:\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/mark-r-rosekind-ph-d-0009226\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.zoox.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Zoox, Inc<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><b>Connect with Ed Bernardon:<\/b><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/edward-bernardon-922442\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.plm.automation.siemens.com\/global\/en\/resource\/future-car-whitepaper\/87745\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Future Car: Driving a Lifestyle Revolution<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/new.siemens.com\/global\/en\/company\/stories\/industry\/autonomous-and-connected-vehicles.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Motorsports is speeding the way to safer urban mobility<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.plm.automation.siemens.com\/global\/en\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Siemens Digital Industries Software<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><!-- \/wp:paragraph --><\/p>      <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n  <\/div>\n      <div class=\"card\">\n        <div class=\"card-header\" id=\"headingTwo\">\n        <span class=\"mb-0\">\n            <button class=\"btn btn-link collapsed\" data-toggle=\"collapse\" data-target=\"#collapseTwo\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"collapseTwo\">Expand Transcript<\/button>\n        <\/span>\n        <\/div>\n        <div id=\"collapseTwo\" class=\"collapse\" aria-labelledby=\"headingTwo\" data-parent=\"#accordion\">\n            <div class=\"card-body\"><p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Have you ever been a passenger in a car or bus and almost feared for your life? What if those uncomfortable rides were a thing of the past and we could count on safely and efficiently getting from point A to point B? When it comes to ensuring safety in a vehicle \u2014either human or autonomous driven or really anything else \u2014 it\u2019s always better to be proactive rather than reactive. This is the Zoox approach for autonomous vehicle safety: take action to prevent situations where accidents may occur well before the accident is even about to happen!<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Today, I continue my conversation with Mark Rosekind, Chief Safety Innovation Officer at Zoox and a former member of the National Transportation Safety Board. We discuss the proactive safety measures behind the Zoox AVs, including Mark\u2019s deeply personal inspiration behind promoting vehicle safety. I also talk to Mark about what to do if you ever feel yourself starting to doze off behind the wheel, the one thing he\u2019d like to \u201cuninvent.\u201d Tune in and hear part two of our conversation, on this episode of The Future Car podcast.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Mark, welcome back to the Future Car podcast.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I\u2019d like to take a step back and talk a little bit about your background and your inspiration. I think your father was a motorcycle policeman and was in traffic enforcement. I believe that was a big inspiration for you early on.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>I don\u2019t talk about this a lot. Actually, it was at my Senate confirmation hearing for being NHTSA Administrator that I actually talked about this publicly, but my father was a motorcycle policeman in San Francisco and he was chasing a traffic violator when somebody ran a red and hit him. So, he was killed in the line of duty \u2013 I was three and a half, my brother was two. And so we were one of those headlines: \u201cOfficer killed in the line of duty, leaves a widow with two young kids.\u201d And so, it\u2019s one of the reasons I know 38,680 lives lost in 2020. For some, that\u2019s just a number or statistics. For me, every one of those numbers is a father or a mother, sister, brother, a community member, one of your colleagues \u2014 those are people and we can\u2019t bring them back. We can talk about all this stuff for safety, but we cannot bring those lives back to us. And so, yeah, this is personal for me, I don\u2019t lead with that. But when people want to talk about these issues about safety, and choices we make, this is personal \u2013 very, very personal for me. And so, whether it\u2019s a law enforcement side, people lose significant members of their family and friends, it affects your entire life.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And I think, too, that, as we\u2019re saying, safety is a key thing, especially with autonomous vehicles. And it\u2019s one thing to say, \u201cHey, we gotta make sure we also make it safe, besides all the AI and everything.\u201d But it\u2019s really another level when the need for safety is a passion that\u2019s always been with you, I would imagine, throughout your life, and certainly, your career shows that.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>You\u2019re on target there, Ed, which is why, for me, safety is always foundational to everything. Safety first \u2013 not as a priority because priorities change, but safety is foundational. It is what you build everything on top of. And you\u2019re right. For me, when I look across my career \u2013 and I\u2019m an old guy now, been around for some decades doing this stuff \u2013 safety is always what drives me; what\u2019s it gonna take to save more lives?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And I think when it comes to autonomous vehicles, one might say, \u201cOh, we want autonomous vehicles because they\u2019re going to be more cost-effective, or they\u2019re going to be more sustainable.\u201d I mean, you can come up with a long list of things. But no matter what, none of those things really mean anything unless it\u2019s safe. And being safe, I think, is a foregone conclusion \u2013 you\u2019ve got to prove that it\u2019s safe before you even start talking about the rest. I want to ask you about the earlier parts of your career. You were in an area that had a lot to do with sleep research and alertness. How did you get into that? How did you go from that to transportation? Obviously, they\u2019re related because there\u2019s probably one of the biggest things that hurt safety is when people fall asleep or aren\u2019t alert while they\u2019re driving. But how did that interest come about?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>I\u2019ll keep it short, but I\u2019m an undergraduate at Stanford, pre-med, and I take a course called \u201csleep and dreams.\u201d And the one thing everybody knows is REM sleep, Rapid Eye Movement sleep. Well, the course is being taught by the guy who helped discover that. And it was just fascinating because everybody sleeps and it affects everyone. So, that\u2019s how I got into Sleep and actually decided to pursue a Ph.D. so I could do research. I ended up working with Dr. Dement \u2013 the guy who helped discover \u2013 for a bunch of years. And ended up getting my Ph.D., doing a postdoc with somebody from Stanford who was at Brown, doing a bunch of sleep research. When I came back, I worked for Dr. Dement again for some years. And then I started working with NASA. And to your point, the NASA work was focused on pilots and astronauts and how do you keep them awake on the job. So, that was my transition to transportation. So, in the \u201870s, for about seven years, I ran a program called the Fatigue Countermeasures Program at NASA; keeping pilots and astronauts awake. So, we were highly involved in aviation: pilots, military, commercial, business, air traffic control \u2013 you name it, everyone\u2019s got to be alert on the job to keep things safe. And eventually, at NASA, it became clear it wasn\u2019t just aviation; all modes of transportation had fatigue issues. And so that started in the \u201870s, but by the mid-\u201890s, I was pretty much involved in human fatigue issues across all modes of transportation. And so, for me, it\u2019s actually been about 25 years I\u2019ve been in the transportation industry. And the thing I\u2019ll just mention, what\u2019s interesting is so many people are familiar with my work in Washington, at the NTSB or NHTSA. I had a long, multi-decade career doing sleep work for a lot of years before that, and really was my first intellectual passion, which is fun, but you already made the connection. Clearly, that\u2019s a key to safety in any mode of transportation.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Well, along those lines then. So, you\u2019re an alertness expert of some kind, certainly the greatest alertness expert we\u2019ve ever had on The Future Car podcast. So, I want some advice for our listeners. So, certainly, you want to be proactive, but let\u2019s say you\u2019re in a reactive mode, you\u2019re driving, you catch yourself starting to do that head nod, little bit dozing off \u2013 is it better to roll the window down and have cold air on your face, or maybe slap your face a little bit maybe, or turn the radio, or pullover is probably the best thing to do? What do you recommend there to get yourself alert again?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>So, Ed, we are about to save some lives. Are you ready?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I\u2019m ready.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Great question. We\u2019re going to save some lives with this. And you\u2019re right, this is my area of expertise. I\u2019m the Lifetime Achievement winner from the National Sleep Foundation, I have over 150 publications. This is stuff I do; keeping those pilots and astronauts awake. So, what do you do as a driver? First of all, when you get the head nod, pull over. One of the studies I did \u2014 I have one right back here \u2014 was giving pilots naps in the cockpit. Why did we do that? Because they were falling asleep, two or three at a time, including when landing a 747. So, if your brain is sleepy enough, it will fall asleep even in a life-threatening situation. So, if you\u2019re in your car and you\u2019re getting a head nod, it\u2019s too late, you\u2019ve got to pull over. And don\u2019t just pull over, you want to pull over, and if you can, take a short nap, because only the sleepiness is going to help reverse that. So, to your question, brilliant, because that\u2019s what people say, \u201cCan I roll the window down? Can I slap myself? Can I turn the radio up? Can I turn the lights on?\u201d Those things work for 10 minutes. So, they\u2019ll work just long enough to get you to a safe place to pull over. But if you do those thinking you\u2019re going to make the next hour, half-hour, even 15 minutes of your ride, that could be when the crash occurs that could take your life.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>That\u2019s great advice. And I think, too, nobody wants their face slapped every 10 minutes.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Yeah. And it doesn\u2019t work after a while. That\u2019s my point, is your brain will shut you down. And we\u2019re lucky, often, because there\u2019s nothing that\u2019s life-threatening. But if in that moment, a car comes our way or there\u2019s a pole in the way, that\u2019s where the crash and your life gets threatened.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, you took a move into government, you were in the Obama administration, head of NHTSA and then there\u2019s the National Transportation Safety Board, which I think was before that. What is the National Transportation Safety Board? What is the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration? What\u2019s the difference? What are their roles? You\u2019re in both, maybe you could tell us a little bit about what they do for us?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>You bet. And you know what, Ed? It\u2019s so good that you\u2019re asking about that because especially in the auto industry, people are very familiar with NHTSA, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration because it\u2019s the modal agency within the Department of Transportation that has responsibility for auto safety regulation enforcement. So, that\u2019s what NHTSA does for the whole country. And in the past, it was barely 650 people and not even a billion-dollar budget responsible for all safety regulation enforcement. The NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board. So, at NHTSA, I was Administrator; at the NTSB, I was one of the five board members. And the NTSB, basically, investigates major crashes in all modes to make recommendations so those crashes don\u2019t happen again. And so, what\u2019s critical there is the NTSB does the investigation part making recommendations, but it doesn\u2019t really have any power to enact any of those recommendations. It\u2019s up to companies, governments, state, local, federal to actually make the changes to bring those recommendations to fruition. So, NTSB\u2019s investigations with recommendations; NHTSA, actually, is the one that implements the safety programs, does the regulation, does the enforcement. They\u2019re very complementary in that way.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, one of the roles of the NTSB, when you were there, is to try and understand why your crash occurred. And you\u2019ve said that crashes are complex. So, what are the key areas that you consider when you arrive at a crash scene? I mean, you\u2019re sitting there, you\u2019ve got these cars, it could be pretty mangled. Is there a systematic way that you try and figure out what\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Absolutely. And the NTSB is superb at it. And I don\u2019t mind saying, even as a board member, did I learn from those professional investigators who are superb. So, when you show up on scene, you\u2019re looking at three things: the human, the machine, and the environment. And you go through each one of those areas. So, the human is everything \u2014 Let\u2019s say, it\u2019s an, again, automobile crash. You\u2019re looking at the driver \u2013 did they have their license? Were they trained to do what they were supposed to do? Were they drinking? Were they sleep-deprived? You look at the human. You look at the environment \u2013 so, that\u2019s gonna be everything from weather to the road, etc \u2013 and you look at the machine. In this case, it\u2019s the car, for example. Was there a defect? Were the brakes working? So, the human, the machine, the environment, those three things. An in-depth examination and analysis of each one of those areas, which the NTSB usually comes up with a finding, a probable cause, but also contributing factors. The complex point is that is never one thing, there\u2019s always multiple things in a chain of events that create a crash.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>You\u2019re somewhat in a unique position because of your experience in government, and now in one of the leading companies that\u2019s creating autonomous vehicles and a service-based on autonomous vehicles. How do you compare the perspective of government regulators versus people on the commercial side of things when it comes to safety? How do they look at it differently? How do they look at it the same?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>So, I think, to your point, the ones who keep safety literally in the bull\u2019s eye as the primary target, look at it the same. It\u2019s about saving lives, preventing injuries, preventing crashes, etc. But to your point is, what path do you take to get there? And so government investigators or regulators are going to look at the levers or tools they have available to make changes that will save those lives and prevent crashes. Whereas in a company, it can\u2019t control the whole system, it\u2019s got to be thinking, \u201cWhat product do we create that\u2019s going to help us save lives or prevent those injuries?\u201d So, they may have the same central objective, but they will come at it from different kinds of angles. People say, right now with autonomous vehicles, that the regulators are always going to be behind because the technology\u2019s changing so quickly. I always point out, the government doesn\u2019t actually build stuff, that\u2019s up to car manufacturers, plane manufacturers, iPhone manufacturers, technology, and other companies that build things. The regulators are always going to be late, if you will, because they come after when the new technology has been innovated. And then the job is to make sure the government regulators can come \u2013 hopefully early enough \u2013 to make sure the guardrails are around so that new technology is safe. And I always say this, which is, even now, with all the talk about AVs, great potential, we still have to prove it, we still have to prove that it will give us the benefits that we talk about.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>From the commercial side, having been on the government side, if you could give some advice to the people in government right now, on something \u2014 let\u2019s just call it the top thing that they could do sooner rather than later, to improve the environment to get autonomous vehicles out there and operating? What would you recommend to the federal government to do?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Can I do two?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I\u2019ll let you go for as many as you want.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Well, I think, actually, one of the first things that government can do, which is a wonderful role they can play, is to bring the different parties together so the industry can get together and say, \u201cWe want to do these safety things.\u201d But sometimes, as we discuss their competitive concerns about intellectual property or whatever, they don\u2019t always talk to each other. If the government says, \u201cI\u2019m getting you all in the room because I have this safety objective, I want to know how we\u2019re gonna get there\u201d, they can be a great motivator to bring those people, not just in the room, but to problem-solve. So, that\u2019s the first thing. I think NHTSA and DOT can be a great forum to bring groups together. And that\u2019s why the second thing, just to give an example of that, is, there\u2019s a huge problem \u2013 I\u2019ve been bringing this up a few places but there\u2019s a huge problem right now with all the different language that people use to describe all this new technology: ADAS, supportive systems, ADS (Automated Driving System); what do all these mean? AEB versus ACC, and I\u2019m using these acronyms for a reason, which is, people don\u2019t necessarily know what they mean, and what does it mean, actually, in my vehicle. So, again, a great example of what government could do is get people together and say, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s nail the language down. And going forward, this is what we\u2019re going to call X, and Y, and Z.\u201d So, when we were talking about communication earlier, the same issue is how do we make sure consumers or the road users have a consistent language to understand about this new technology? That\u2019s just one example.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>If the government brought you all together, you\u2019re all in the same room, you\u2019re the leader of the discussion, what would be the first topic you would want to discuss? What\u2019s the top topic that you\u2019d love to discuss and would hope that you could come to some resolution on or to some benefit?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>The question you asked: How safe is safe enough? So, it couldn\u2019t get it figured out for the last 100 years, how do we figure out how safe is safe enough for moving forward? We can say zero, that\u2019s our objective; how do we get there?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And what better time than now when everyone is innovating and coming up with new ways to do transportation unlike ever before it? This is your chance, our chance to do it.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Exactly. So, just to go back to the beginning, my title is actually Chief Safety Innovation Officer. And I said that because I have pointed out since being an administrator, we need as much innovation in the safety arena as we do in all the technology arenas. That\u2019s how we move to get to zero.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Well, let\u2019s talk about some of those safety innovations because the claim is that you have over 100 safety innovations. So, by innovations, it\u2019s things that don\u2019t exist already. So, tell us about your 100 safety innovations \u2013 the most significant, the ones you\u2019re most proud of.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>So, we just put out a second safety report. And it\u2019s just zoox.com\/safety. Everybody submitted them to NHTSA. We did our first one on our philosophy. The second one is where you got that statistic that we\u2019re talking about, where we identified \u2013 you\u2019re right \u2013 100 safety innovations that don\u2019t exist on cars that are on the road today. In that report, we highlight nine of them. They fall into three areas, one had to do with driving controls. So, it gets to our four-wheel steering, braking, and why those matter. It actually talks about the accuracy of our steering, even at speed around corners; braking, which should be obvious, because it means you can stop shorter, react more quickly, all that kind of stuff. The second category mostly had to do with what we call our safety objective of no single point of failure. That means designing systems at an aviation level of safety \u2013 so you have redundancies to make sure that if one system goes, there\u2019s a backup and another backup. And so we have three examples of that, including monitors that monitor all these different systems in the vehicle. So, again, we\u2019re bi-directional. If something happens that cuts off some capability in the front, won\u2019t be bi-directional. Let\u2019s just go in the other direction, bypass those until those things can get fixed. And the third area is innovations in traditional arenas. So, for example, seatbelts and airbags. So, in a Zoox vehicle, when you get in, everyone has to be buckled up before it will move. 91% of people wear their seatbelts, but in crashes where people die, 50% of them were not wearing their seatbelts. A Zoox vehicle won\u2019t start moving until you\u2019re buckled up \u2013 so, that\u2019s built-in. And the airbag system, I hope people go to the report, but it\u2019s this beautiful curtain airbag that comes down. Again, we have a clean sheet, what can we do? Instead of in a steering wheel, it\u2019s got to come out at you. Well, this is a curtain that comes down, there\u2019s a secondary one for each passenger that can come out, and then they\u2019re everywhere else \u2013 side, back, etc. And you\u2019ve got to read about it because it\u2019s so cool. But we actually have an airbag module that can determine where that impact is coming from and potential speed, so it can actually determine what airbags need to release when based on what crash is about to occur. So, that gets to our prevention that we were talking about, as opposed to reacting after things actually happen.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>We hear front airbags, side airbags, rear airbags; you also have a horseshoe airbag. And I think you\u2019re right, that image you have on your site, you\u2019re completely enveloped in airbags, so you\u2019re covered in every direction. One thing also is a little bit tricky when it comes to safety, and I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve thought about this, is, in conventional vehicles we\u2019re facing forward. Now, suddenly, you have two people facing back. And in fact, it says it can go in either direction, they\u2019re both front and back. And keeping someone safe when the seat is behind you, or I guess in front of you, however you want to look at it, it\u2019s a little trickier. How do you handle that?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Yeah, good for you. It does make it more complex. We\u2019re already doing crash testing. And I always tell people, we want to meet or exceed what the requirements are. And so, to your point, most of that is built for front rows front-facing, we will meet those. But again, you\u2019re completely correct as we actually have to think about that from our carriage seating perspective. And so our testing, our crash testing, and all the other things we do; we are trying, as we\u2019ve discussed, to provide the same level of safety. In NCAP terms, that would be five-star crash-worthy test, crash-level protection in every seat in our vehicle. We alluded to this briefly. But the way the current crash systems are set, they have higher criteria for the front seat, sometimes no criteria, or lower criteria for the back seat. For us, because of what you just described, we have the same high level intending to get five-star crashworthiness for every seat in the vehicle.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And that\u2019s self-imposed, or is there a government regulation that says, \u201cHey, no matter how many seats you have and what direction they\u2019re facing, you must be safe to some level.\u201d? I mean, I would never have thought of that.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>And it doesn\u2019t exist.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Yeah, you go from having all the seats facing forward. And like you just said, sometimes there isn\u2019t even a regulation for what happens in the backseat. And now, these configurations, who knows what they are. I mean, that must make the job for the safety regulators very complex. Fortunately, you are doing some self-regulation.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>So, one of my favorite mantras at Zoox is: \u201cSet the bar.\u201d These brilliant young engineers come in with a problem they\u2019re trying to solve. And in some cases, for traditional automaking, you can literally go to the book on the shelf, pull it out and say, \u201cOh, this is how you solve that.\u201d With a lot of what we\u2019re doing, it\u2019s never been done before. And so that\u2019s why my mantra is: \u201cSet the bar for safety where you think it needs to be.\u201d So, that\u2019s the example you just gave. There is no regulation that says, \u201cIf you have this kind of seating, here\u2019s the level of protection you should provide.\u201d So, we\u2019ll set the bar for what we think is, \u201cYou know what? Every seat should have the same five-star level of safety for everyone.\u201d Hopefully, people will emulate or follow us for where that bar gets set.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Sometimes with autonomous vehicles, we don\u2019t think about the more traditional aspects of that vehicle. And you actually touched on them, at least mentioned them a few minutes ago: four-wheel steering and shorter stopping distance. I mean, those are things that you could put in a traditional car. So, the four-wheel steering, maybe you could explain that a little bit for our listeners, but it makes the car more agile, the ability to steer more quickly or to tighter spots. And also, what exactly are you doing to make the stopping distance shorter?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>I hope people go to the report because it gives really nice diagrams of all that stuff. And I think the example I would give is you\u2019re driving in a city, where there are cars parked on the right, and you see a bunch of kids over there playing, and now you\u2019re worried about that ball coming into the street. So, that\u2019s the model. The four-wheel steering gives you the accuracy to know, \u201cYou know what? We can just move six inches, a foot further left into a lane that gives us more time to react, if that ball should come.\u201d The braking system, same kind of thing, is that being able to stop in a shorter distance means if that comes, not just a quick one, but seeing it with our perception systems, there are actually kids over in that area, gives us a chance to slow down \u2013 so we\u2019re actually breaking from a slower speed than having to break at, say, a higher speed. Again, you can read the specifics of the technology that\u2019s in there. But it\u2019s thinking of the scenario where you would use both the steering and the braking to make a difference on what kind of safety you could be providing for that kid that might dart out, that all of this fear, could dart out in front of our vehicle.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>You\u2019re giving the vehicle better tools to be able to deal with situations that you normally might not have to if you didn\u2019t have those two things. You also mentioned no single point of failure. Your battery system dies, your computer dies, who knows what; you want to make sure that the vehicle, just like a real driver \u2014 the driver that had fatigue, we were talking about before \u2014 you\u2019d better pull over before you get too sleepy. How do you make it so that if there are system failures of some kind that the autonomous car can pull over safely?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>So, I\u2019ll just give you a couple of quick examples. One is, since you mentioned the battery, we actually have what will be one of the largest batteries on the road. But it\u2019s actually in two forms. There are two batteries; one on the one side of the vehicle, one on the other. And so if one actually goes out, the other one can get you to your destination and then back for maintenance. That should be invisible to you, even if it goes out; that\u2019s the redundancy part. And then I just alluded to the monitoring system that monitor all the different sensors, the same kind of thing. Let\u2019s say, your lights going in one direction fail for some reason; you would not only be able to sense that, but you would be able to literally decide which direction should the vehicle go in so it can deliver you to your destination, invisible to you that there was even a system issue, and then go back for maintenance so it gets fixed before it goes out again. And so whether it\u2019s battery or light systems or braking systems, there are redundancies \u2013 anywhere from one to three or more deep \u2013 that allow, basically, compensation without even letting the rider know about it. So, you get to your destination without even knowing it, and then it\u2019ll get fixed before the next riders get in.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Humans have to take a driving test to make sure that they\u2019re capable. Your code, the AI engine, the brain, you\u2019re using a lot of simulation to test things before they go on the road. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What types of simulations do you use? How do you use them? How do you know when you\u2019ve simulated enough and it\u2019s time to put it on the road?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Well, why that\u2019s so important is because people talk about public testing. And I always point out, there\u2019s a long path before you ever get to public testing. We have laboratory setups that do simulation, and mechanical, we\u2019ve written about it in some things recently. But we have something called DynoBot \u2013 it\u2019s one of our videos we put out, etc \u2013 where we have all the mechanical systems we get to test, but in a lab. So, we\u2019re creating all these new things, you don\u2019t want to test those on a vehicle that\u2019s on even private roads. So, we have all kinds of laboratory testing and simulation, etc. And for the simulation part, the beauty of that is: Give me an interesting scenario. In simulation, I can do hundreds, thousands of variations on that, that could take me billions of miles to actually experience. And so that\u2019s the beauty of simulation \u2013 you can do all that. And by the way, you then go from the laboratory, to private tracks, to private roads, eventually to public roads, and eventually to public servants. The point that\u2019s really critical there, is it\u2019s not like people just say, \u201cOh, that\u2019s interesting. Let\u2019s go test it on public roads where there are people. Here\u2019s all this other stuff you do.\u201d And I think what you\u2019re highlighting there is there\u2019s a lot of stuff that never makes it out of simulation or the laboratory that never gets onto the vehicle, because it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, that doesn\u2019t work the way we intended. Let\u2019s figure out how to do it right.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>When it comes to simulation, are the simulations homegrown, proprietary, built in-house? Are they tools that are publicly available, and really you just add data? What actually do you use when you do simulation?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>We create our own. We actually have a lot of folks from the gaming industry. So, the 3D richness of these environments is just amazing. And so we create our own. This is the part of having it tightly integrated, so it reflects our experience, as well as the other kinds of things. As you know, some people do offer simulation capabilities to different companies, etc. We grow our own. We also do our own maps \u2013 that\u2019s, again, our integrated system that we think gives us some advantages for different things. And so, again, personally, I think in the future, simulation will become the predominant testing environment. You have to make sure that the simulation can be validated by your on-road testing. But at some point, simulation gives you so much more capability than, again, the hundreds of millions or billions of miles you could drive, simulation is the place to be if you can do it. So, I think some balance, when we figure out, \u201cWell, this many millions of simulations are equal to X number of miles,\u201d we\u2019ll be able to get that equation that allows us to use simulation even more.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Another part of safety is the infrastructure within which these vehicles are going to operate. So, for human drivers, there are traffic signs. And now, of course, there are connected vehicles, could have human drivers in it. And connected vehicle technology certainly applies to autonomous vehicles as well. You\u2019re in three different cities, they probably have a different infrastructure. What can you tell us about the level of infrastructure today, and what you really think needs to be done to improve that infrastructure to make autonomous vehicles safer?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>What\u2019s interesting about this issue is that Zoox has the AI built into the vehicle, and we have mapped the area we\u2019re going to be driving in. And so any city that maintains its infrastructure, which means street lines are painted, it\u2019s got stop signs that are visible, or that your flashing lights really flash the right color. If it just maintains that, then we\u2019re good. And we\u2019ve always pointed out that the better your infrastructure is, then the more accurate our map is, and the more accurate our perception in the moment is going to be, the safer and better it\u2019s going to be able to drive. When you get to the connected vehicle, whether it\u2019s vehicle to vehicle or infrastructure or pedestrians, etc, again, our vehicle is actually created to be able to operate on its own with its perception systems, etc. But when those become more commonplace, then we can incorporate those, and they\u2019ll just help expand our envelope for operating for safety, etc. But we don\u2019t want to have to rely on a big city investment to allow us to come in and operate in their environment.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>So, the vehicle itself has to be safe on its own with zero help from the infrastructure, that\u2019s a given. If you have infrastructure available, then, potentially, you could navigate intersections more efficiently, or who knows what. If you could add infrastructure, what aspects of infrastructure do you think you would want to add that would help you, say, navigate more quickly or get through intersections faster? What would you ask for from a city?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>So, let\u2019s just say the basic infrastructure is good, painted lines, etc. Two things. I think any communication system between the infrastructure, so we\u2019ll know lights are green, yellow, red, all that kind of stuff would be great. And then the other thing would be any \u201cpop-ups\u201d \u2014 construction, emergency response, any of those kinds of things beyond lights and siren, that could be put out, or construction that just got created today, but it\u2019s going to be there for three weeks \u2014 if there are ways to send information out about that, then we would be able to totally avoid that situation. Same thing with emergency vehicles.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I want to ask you, it\u2019s the year 2050, we\u2019ve had all this great communication between all the suppliers of vehicles and services and all that kind of thing. What\u2019s it going to be like? I\u2019ll pick Boston here. I\u2019m going to step out of a building, I\u2019m going to look around at the sidewalk, I\u2019m going to look around at what\u2019s on the road \u2013 what do I see?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Hopefully, you\u2019re going to see a whole new mobility system that gives you even more access to whatever you need. So, if you want to take public transit, there\u2019s some system, like a Zoox vehicle, that could literally pick you up at your door and take you to a bus station somewhere, or a rail system somewhere. Or you can come out the door and you can get your app, and basically, \u201cYou know what? I need to get out of the state and go skiing in Vermont.\u201d And you can pick someone else who could do that for you. Or you\u2019re coming to your door because there\u2019s a delivery that was supposed to show up, and it\u2019s not somebody on a bike or in a car, it\u2019s literally a robot that\u2019s showing up at your door for you to be able to take what you need and put in your return. Just so you know, what I\u2019m talking about here is, everyone who\u2019s crystal-balling, I don\u2019t think we know. And the example I give is the iPhone. Over a dozen years ago, if someone said, \u201cWhat would you pay to have a phone in your pocket? Maybe two, one for work, one for personal. And by the way, you\u2019ll use it for texting.\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s that?\u201d \u201cWell, that\u2019s an app.\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s an app?\u201d I think the same thing is going to happen here, but with our whole mobility system. Things we can\u2019t even imagine yet are going to be out there on the street helping you and so many others move around that we haven\u2019t even thought of. And the number one thing I hope in 2050, if we\u2019re not at zero fatalities, we\u2019re getting pretty close.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>What do you think the mix of vehicles will be? Like, you\u2019re starting to see scooters, and your little shuttle, there\u2019s public transportation, there\u2019s drones now and Urban Air Vehicles. What\u2019s the mix of what I\u2019m going to see when I step out there on that 2050 sidewalk? And it doesn\u2019t even end at the sidewalk, probably; you were talking about little robots that interact with us, they probably walk into the building and out of the building with me, delivering packages. What do you see there, the actual devices that are going to move us and packages around?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>This is another one we could take a few hours on. This, I think, is some of the most exciting things. And we\u2019ve been talking roadway, we didn\u2019t even talk about drones during delivery or moving around in urban mobility, when you think about the whole system. And the reason I say that is because I think we haven\u2019t even come up with all of those solutions. And one of the things that is a gap, though, is we\u2019re not talking about your question enough. So, let\u2019s just stay with roadways. Even by 2050, there\u2019s still going to be drivers that have their hands on the steering wheel of their cars. There\u2019ll be some people with ADAS, they\u2019ll have different kinds of cruise control and blind spot. And then there\u2019ll be truly self-driving vehicles. All on the same roadways. We\u2019re not talking enough about what the next 20 or 30 years are going to look like. And to your point, what does that mean for all the scooters, and delivery, and air drones, etc? There are not enough discussions of those things going on. There have been a couple of questions \u2013 so, good for you for asking an insightful one \u2013 but there haven\u2019t really been meetings, saying, \u201cOkay, how are we going to get an integrated system within Boston that\u2019s going to actually deliver on all the benefits that we keep saying are going to be available from those systems?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>What do you think Zoox has to do? What are the next things that Zoox has to do to take steps towards that 2050 world you were just describing?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>The really exciting part is when I talk to, again, all these brilliant young engineers, the technical challenges are known and we\u2019re going to get them, we\u2019re going to take care of them. I think the biggest challenge, for Zoox and everyone else, is going to be actual deployment in cities; how do we figure that out? And you\u2019re asking some of the questions. We need to make sure the grid is there, places to maintain these vehicles. Where\u2019s the pickup and drop-off? Do you have specific lanes for certain kinds of, whether it\u2019s bicycles or automated vehicles? These are the, literally, rubber-meets-the-road operational issues that need to be addressed to have successful operations in cities. So, I think those are the things that Zoox is starting, not just to acknowledge, but is looking for, basically, how do we answer these with the same innovation that we do with our technology to make sure we\u2019re going to get the most benefit.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Mark, thank you so much for joining us today. I think you\u2019ve done a tremendous job of letting people know when you say, \u201cOh, my vehicle is safe,\u201d then all the aspects and what it really takes to make that happen. Thank you so much for joining us here on The Future Car podcast.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>My pleasure. Hope we do this some more.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>What do you wish you understood better?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Detailed engineering.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>If you could uninvent one thing, what would you uninvent?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>War.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>And if you could magically invent one thing, what would you invent?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Anything that saved lives.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I believe it was at Stanford, you spent time in the dream laboratory. And you were fascinated by that course you took. Tell us what is the best dream you\u2019ve ever had. Remember our audience here now, the best dream you\u2019ve ever had.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Well, I will just admit that I\u2019m a pretty sound sleeper, which means that I don\u2019t remember my dreams very much. And that\u2019s relevant. My wife wakes up all the time telling me her dreams \u2013 and I\u2019m not going to give you any of hers.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>You beat me to the punch. You worked in the Obama administration. Did you ever meet President Obama?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>I went to multiple White House things and activities where he was announcing, etc. So, I never had a sit-down with him where we chatted about stuff.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>But you\u2019ve heard him speak?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Oh, went to the holiday parties, yes.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>I think one of the most interesting things about President Obama is he\u2019s actually a pretty funny guy. And he could almost be a stand-up comedian sometimes when you see him out there. What do you think the funniest thing is you ever saw President Obama do?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>What I can say is that at some of the more informal holiday gatherings, there were chances to do exactly what you\u2019re talking about, which is less scripted and more just engaging with people. And he was just superb at that.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>All right. And here\u2019s the very last question: Tell us something about yourself that would surprise your friends and family, besides the fact that you\u2019re a magician. Besides that, tell us something about yourself that would surprise your friends and family.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>I still get nervous whenever I do presentations or any of these kinds of interactions. In spite of decades of doing this stuff, I still get nervous every time.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Ed Bernardon: <\/b>Mark, you certainly didn\u2019t show it today, though. Not on this podcast. Thank you so much. Really appreciate your time and answering all those questions. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><b>Mark Rosekind: <\/b>Thanks, Ed. Really enjoyed it.<\/p><\/div>\n        <\/div><!-- end #collapseTwo -->\n    <\/div><!-- end .card -->\n    <\/div><!-- end #accordion -->\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n<div class=\"bio-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-3 order-first bio-pic\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/03\/Mark-Rosekind-bio-pic-1.png\" alt=\"Mark R. Rosekind, Chief Safety Innovation Officer at Zoox, Inc.\" \/>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-9 bio-info\">\n        <div class=\"bio-header\">\n            <h4 class=\"speakerintro\">Mark R. Rosekind, Chief Safety Innovation Officer at Zoox, Inc.<\/h4>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-biography\">\n            <p>Ben is the founder of Fering Technologies. He has devoted his career to whole-vehicle design, predominantly in motorsports and supercar design and is the brains behind the Fering Pioneer. He previously worked for Ferrari and McLaren, and was involved in the development of the Caparo T1 project. He has a Bachelor of Science from City, University of London.<\/p>        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-contact\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/mark-r-rosekind-ph-d-0009226\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Connect wtih Mark on LinkedIn<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n<div class=\"bio-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-3 order-last bio-pic\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/01\/bio-pic-eb-2.jpg\" alt=\"Ed Bernardon, Vice President Strategic Automotive Intiatives - Host\" \/>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-9 bio-info\">\n        <div class=\"bio-header\">\n            <h4 class=\"speakerintro\">Ed Bernardon, Vice President Strategic Automotive Intiatives &#8211; Host<\/h4>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-biography\">\n            <p>Ed is currently VP Strategic Automotive Initiatives at Siemens Digital Industries Software. Responsibilities include strategic planning in areas of design of autonomous\/connected vehicles, lightweight automotive structures and interiors. He is also responsible for Future Car thought leadership including hosting the Future Car Podcast and development of cross divisional projects. Previously a founding member of VISTAGY that developed light-weight structure and automotive interior design software acquired by Siemens in 2011.\u00a0 Ed holds an M.S.M.E. from MIT, B.S.M.E. from Purdue, and MBA from Butler.<\/p>        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-contact\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/edward-bernardon-922442\/  \" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Connect with Ed Bernardon Linkedin<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><strong>If you like this Podcast, you might also like:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/the-future-car\/zooxs-journey-to-safety-with-mark-r-rosekind-part-1\/\">Zoox\u2019s Journey to Safety with Mark R. Rosekind \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/the-future-car\/carlo-mondavis-autonomous-electric-tractors-for-sustainable-affordable-farming-part-1\/\">Carlo Mondavi\u2019s Autonomous Electric Tractors for Sustainable, Affordable Farming &#8211; Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/the-future-car\/the-next-leap-for-electric-vehicles-with-will-graylin-indigo-technologies-part-1\/\">The Next Leap for Electric Vehicles with Will Graylin, Indigo Technologies \u2013 Part 1<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u201cSafety isn\u2019t expensive, it&#8217;s priceless.\u201d Follow us on: iTunes Google Podcasts Spotify Stitcher TuneIn RSS In the Autonomous Vehicles field,&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":45480,"featured_media":5028,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"spanish_translation":"","french_translation":"","german_translation":"","italian_translation":"","polish_translation":"","japanese_translation":"","chinese_translation":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2,420],"tags":[353,348,331,321,371,362,332,349,383,402,352,354,376,333,385,379,311,312,326,375,384,360],"industry":[26,27,28,30,31,29],"product":[158,206],"coauthors":[387],"class_list":["post-4135","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-on-the-move","category-ed-bernardon","tag-ai","tag-automotive-2","tag-autonomous-vehicles","tag-design-innovation","tag-digital-future","tag-e-e-systems","tag-electric-vehicles","tag-electrical-systems","tag-electrification","tag-engineer-innovation","tag-industry-4-0","tag-machine-learning","tag-mobility","tag-nx","tag-podcast","tag-product-design","tag-simulation","tag-smart-engineering","tag-systems-modeling","tag-transportation","tag-transportation-revolution","tag-vehicle-electrification","industry-automotive-transportation","industry-automotive-oems","industry-automotive-suppliers","industry-motorcycles-bicycles-parts","industry-rail-systems","industry-trucks-buses-specialty-vehicles","product-nx","product-ses-vistagy"],"featured_image_url":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2022\/04\/01_Siemens_Graphic_1280x720-1.jpg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4135","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/45480"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4135"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4135\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6427,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4135\/revisions\/6427"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5028"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4135"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4135"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4135"},{"taxonomy":"industry","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/industry?post=4135"},{"taxonomy":"product","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/product?post=4135"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=4135"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}