{"id":2562,"date":"2021-06-07T10:00:19","date_gmt":"2021-06-07T14:00:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/?p=2562"},"modified":"2026-03-26T15:06:27","modified_gmt":"2026-03-26T19:06:27","slug":"riding-the-digital-wave-with-cfd-simulation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/engineer-innovation\/riding-the-digital-wave-with-cfd-simulation\/","title":{"rendered":"Ride the digital wave with CFD simulation"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\">(Episode 1)<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"embed-megaphone\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm\/?e=TLFIE6832090065\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><!-- Megaphone -->\n\n<div class=\"embed-megaphone\">\n<div class=\"row podcast-social\">\n    <div class=\"col-12 col-sm-2\"><p>Listen on:<\/p><\/div>\n    <div class=\"col\">\n        <a class=\"button itunes-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/engineer-innovation\/id1570241551\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button google-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5hY2FzdC5jb20vcHVibGljL3Nob3dzL2VuZ2luZWVyLWlubm92YXRpb24\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Google Podcasts<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button spotify-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/58XPQDtKF0Kk9Ig10dbCyN\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Spotify<\/a>\n<a class=\"button iheart-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.audible.com\/pd\/Podcast\/B08JJNSRXY\" rel=\"noopener\">Amazon<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button stitcher-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/podcast\/siemens\/engineer-innovation\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Stitcher<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button tunein-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/podcasts\/Technology-Podcasts\/Engineer-Innovation-p1447400\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">TuneIn<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button iheart-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.iheart.com\/podcast\/83188513\/\" rel=\"noopener\">iHeart<\/a>\n        <a class=\"button rss-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/feeds.megaphone.fm\/TLFIE5593130141\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">RSS<\/a>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><!-- Megaphone -->\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>People have been riding waves for more than 5000 years, which makes surfing one of the world\u2019s oldest sports. The surfboard industry is worth $3 billion, and surfing will debut as an Olympic sport in Tokyo this summer. But it\u2019s more than just a sport.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In ancient Hawaiian culture, the art of <em>he\u2019e nalu <\/em>(or \u201cwave sliding\u201d) is endowed with almost religious significance, where frustrated surfers would call upon the <em>kahuna <\/em>(priest) to aid them with a surfing prayer which asked the Gods to deliver great surf.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the heart of the culture is the almost spiritual act of \u201csurfboard shaping\u201d in which a skilled craftsman manually shaves a piece of wood (or more recently polyurethane) into a hydrodynamic planing surface, carefully adjusting its shape for specific wave conditions and surfer preferences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Using this process, guided by surfer feedback, surfboard design has evolved over hundreds of years. In this podcast, we  ask the question, \u201ccould a digital twin help to design better, more responsive surfboards with the help of CFD simulation?\u201d And discuss how you can test a digital surfboard using a digital wave.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the first episode of the Engineering Innovation podcast I&#8217;m joined by surf enthusiast and sports CFD engineer Luca Oggiano, who is the co-founder and CEO of Nabla Flow. Together we discuss the impact that digital twins have on the surfing industry, and how we can use digital waves to test them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-style-default\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"576\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2-1024x576.png\" alt=\"Riding the digital wave with Nabla Flow and Siemens Simcenter CFD simulation\" class=\"wp-image-2575\" srcset=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2-1024x576.png 1024w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2-600x338.png 600w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2-768x432.png 768w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2-1536x864.png 1536w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2-900x506.png 900w, https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2.png 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n<div id=\"accordion\" class=\"podcast-infonotes\">\n  <div class=\"card\">\n    <div class=\"card-header\" id=\"headingOne\">\n      <span class=\"mb-0\">\n        <button class=\"btn btn-link collapsed\" data-toggle=\"collapse\" data-target=\"#collapseOne\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"collapseOne\">\n          In this episode, you will learn:        <\/button>\n      <\/span>\n    <\/div>\n    <div id=\"collapseOne\" class=\"collapse\" aria-labelledby=\"headingOne\" data-parent=\"#accordion\">\n      <div class=\"card-body\">\n        <ul id=\"block-d9676301-46a5-42fa-b8ef-f3ab9d2e494a\" class=\"block-editor-rich-text__editable block-editor-block-list__block wp-block is-selected rich-text\" role=\"group\" aria-label=\"Block: List\" data-block=\"d9676301-46a5-42fa-b8ef-f3ab9d2e494a\" data-type=\"core\/list\" data-title=\"List\">\n<li>Luca\u2019s firsthand experience with surfing and how he combined the hobby with engineering\u00a0(02:00)\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>The engineering that goes into modern surfboards (04:49)\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>What obstacles had to be overcome to implement CFD in surfing (08:21)\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>The process and evolution of surfing simulations (10:07)\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>How the simulations were utilized in board designing (15:05)\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>How top professional surfers are using wave pools and CFD to revolutionize their mastery (24:15)\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>If we can look forward to seeing CAE designed surfboards in the 2024 Olympics (25:52<\/li>\n<\/ul>      <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n  <\/div>\n  <\/div><!-- end #accordion -->\n\n<div id=\"accordion\" class=\"podcast-infonotes\">\n  <div class=\"card\">\n    <div class=\"card-header\" id=\"headingOne\">\n      <span class=\"mb-0\">\n        <button class=\"btn btn-link collapsed\" data-toggle=\"collapse\" data-target=\"#collapseOne\" aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-controls=\"collapseOne\">\n          Read transcript        <\/button>\n      <\/span>\n    <\/div>\n    <div id=\"collapseOne\" class=\"collapse\" aria-labelledby=\"headingOne\" data-parent=\"#accordion\">\n      <div class=\"card-body\">\n        <p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">With me now is Luca Oggiano, who\u2019s the CEO and co-founder of\u00a0Nabla\u00a0Flow,\u00a0and also\u00a0a co-founder of the Surf Engineering Association. Luca, most important question first, are you a surfer?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yes, I am a surfer. I\u2019m not an amazing surfer, but I\u2019ve been surfing for most of my life, I will say.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And originally, you\u2019re from Italy, but now you\u2019re in Norway?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Exactly. I\u2019m from Sardinia, the island.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">How is surfing in Norway? Can you get any good surfing, not in Stavanger where you are &#8211; it\u2019s the wrong side of the coast, isn\u2019t it? I imagine.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It\u2019s\u00a0actually the\u00a0right side of the coast. I was surfing this morning for about two hours. I had a very nice session, no one in the water. As you can imagine, there are way fewer people here than in places with a better climate.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, you get the surf all to yourself, which is\u00a0pretty cool. So, tell me a bit about your background and how did you get involved in surfing because you\u2019re a\u00a0CFD\u00a0guy, aren\u2019t you? You\u2019re an aerodynamicist, you\u2019re a\u00a0CFD\u00a0guy and you\u2019ve got a history in sports engineering, but how did you get involved in surfing, from an engineering point of view?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, surfing itself, I started surfing when I was 20. But then I moved to Torino where I studied aerospace engineering, and then it was\u00a0pretty difficult\u00a0to reach the beach and the waves. Then I started to surf quite a bit more intensively when I moved to Australia for one and a half years. And\u00a0more or less at\u00a0the same time, I started to work on\u00a0CFD, I finished my Ph.D. and I got hired to work with offshore wind energy. And then we started to use,\u00a0actually started\u00a0CN Plus for a simulation for the offshore wind energy market, where we were simulating either wind turbines, particularly waves hitting this floating &#8211; either floating or both of its substructures. Then at some point, I started to think, \u201cI think with exactly the same tool, I should be able to simulate a surfboard as well.\u201d And I started playing around and, well, that\u2019s where it started. So, during the breaks from when I wasn\u2019t at a meeting, during the break, I started to play around, I downloaded a geometry from the\u00a0net\u00a0and I started playing with a surfboard on CN Plus.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[02:14]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That\u2019s always a dangerous thing to do, isn\u2019t it? To download a model from the internet and start playing around because it can end up as you say, take years of your life away doing those kinds of simulations. So, the surfboard industry, I mean just googling online is worth about $3 billion, that\u2019s what Google tells me anyway. And it\u2019s getting bigger as well because I think this year in Tokyo surfing is finally going to be an Olympic sport. The sport\u2019s thousands of years old, maybe it originated in Polynesia, and in some ways, it\u2019s more like a religion than a sport. There\u2019s kind of religious parts to it, at least in its origins and it\u2019s been massive sports since the\u00a01960s. How are surfboards designed today? There\u2019s much engineering that goes into the designing of\u00a0surfboards?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[02:59]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">There is more and more engineering going into the design of surfboards. Until I would say 10-15 years ago, it was almost just an art. So, people were just shaping planks in their own either backyard or garage and making a surfboard out of those planks. When CNC machines started approaching and then you could start\u00a0using also\u00a0CAD software to design surfboards. Then the overall industry started translating into a more engineering-looking industry where you could not only mass-produce surfboards but also reproduce surfboards or produce them at least with a certain level of accuracy. And then that\u2019s where the industry is at right now. I think though it is in a very early stage when it comes to both structural dynamics and hydrodynamics. Or at least in how hydrodynamics and structural dynamic designs are implemented into the surfboard design itself. A lot comes from experience basically at this stage.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[03:59]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, this effort to apply disruptive engineering technology or simulation technology to the surfboard industry into the sport, isn\u2019t just something that you\u2019re doing, there\u2019s a wider group of people you\u2019re working with. Can tell us a bit about those guys?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[04:13]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well, we are\u00a0actually three\u00a0friends. I will say we met in a very weird way. With Marc we met in Australia, I was at a conference &#8211; it was one of the\u00a0ISEA\u00a0conferences and I met one of his colleagues. Marc is an expert in both structural dynamics and surfboard testing. He managed to build I think the most amazing facility for surfboard testing in the world and he\u2019s been one of the first guys that I know at least trying to go deep into the modes of the board, so how the boards vibrate and how these modes interact with the performance of the boards themselves. We\u2019ve been working also together on this topic\u00a0and also\u00a0wrote some papers together. Dave is coming from a different type of industry he\u2019s been designing his own fins and that\u2019s where they met with Marc, and then I got introduced to Dave, from Marc. And the last guy in the Surf Engineering Association is Jimmy Freese. He is the co-founder of I think\u00a0actually the\u00a0founder of one of the largest companies for CAD design applied to surfboards, so he\u2019s the founder of\u00a0AkuShaper. I think they produce or the\u00a0AkuShaper\u00a0used to make probably half of the boards on the planet. And he managed to join us at the last symposium we had in Hawaii. So yeah, we got to know each other in a very random way, I will say, but we got along. And now, we managed to\u00a0found\u00a0this Surf Engineering Association, which is great fun.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[05:40]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">And so, if you\u2019re going to have a surfing conference, the only real place to have it I think is Hawaii. How did that work out? Was there much interest from the general, wider surfing kind of population? Were they interested in what you guys were talking about?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[05:54]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">We\u00a0actually had\u00a0surprisingly quite a few guys dropping in. It was I will say a homemade conference, I will not even call it a conference, it was more of a symposium, was at a very familiar venue. We had both a range of people from five years old, up to eighty years old at the conference. So, it was an amazing atmosphere I will say, completely informal, and we were presenting in shorts, and everyone was wearing shorts there &#8211; it was really a blast, we had a blast. It was amazing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[06:25]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I bet there was sand all over the conference room, wasn\u2019t there? When you guys were hanging out there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[06:30]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, sort of.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[06:34]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Okay, so what are the issues? What\u2019s prevented the surfing community from using\u00a0CFD\u00a0or engineering simulation before now? What kinds of obstacles had to\u00a0overcome,\u00a0do you think?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[06:47]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think there are two obstacles. The main obstacle is the obstacle that\u00a0CFD\u00a0always had, some outreach was complex, difficult, required enormous computational power, I was not there yet. Now it\u2019s starting to be applied to fields where you can\u00a0actually run\u00a0simulations at relatively low costs, especially when it comes to cost in terms of money. And surfing is one of those industries, meaning that there is not the same amount of money that you can have in designing a Formula One car, for instance. But now simulations are more available, they are easy to run, the software is also getting smarter, so everyone, or not everyone, but let\u2019s say that it\u2019s easier to run simulations now than it was 10 years ago. And then the second issue is that probably no one thought about that before. So yeah, once you start opening some doors, then people start seeing the doors as well. And they see the door open, and then they start to understand as well. There is a whole world here we didn\u2019t think of and let\u2019s start exploring it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[07:49]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, yeah. I think we\u2019ve seen\u2026 So\u00a0as long as\u00a0I\u2019ve been involved in\u00a0CFD, which is almost 30 years now, there are always people trying to apply\u00a0CFD\u00a0to sports.\u00a0So\u00a0Formula One is the obvious one. Obviously, for cycling aerodynamics, it\u2019s been used quite a lot recently, as well. And in the news recently, you\u2019ve seen America\u2019s Cup, where you\u2019ve got these hydro foiling monohulls, which are traveling at 50 knots. So, kind of the technology for simulating high-performance boats in waves is there but one of the things that I don\u2019t quite understand is how can you simulate a surfboard, without a surfing maneuver? Surely you need to be able to model how the surfboard is moving through the waves and where would you even begin to get that kind of data?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[08:33]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well, we decided to go simple first. The very first simulations were just a board fixed, basically, in the water. And then you can start seeing already you can already start at least with some information about how the flow goes &#8211; for instance during the paddling phase. Then we started placing the board at a certain angle in the flow representing some sort of turns. And then we were trying to understand what kind of influence the tail has in this type of static but still somehow dynamic type of situation. And from there on, we started moving forward and we started implementing maneuvers and also that way was prescribed maneuver &#8211; meaning that we were prescribing the kinematics &#8211; until at the end we managed to implement, with the\u00a0FPI, we managed to implement forces on the\u00a0board\u00a0so the board is literally floating on a flume and we represent the surfer, so basically one point imposing some certain movements to the board. And that\u2019s probably the most representative case we can get at least at this specific stage when it comes to surfboards. Design? I will not call it design, but it is more\u00a0CFD\u00a0applied to surfing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[09:42]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think I read somewhere that you managed to\u2026 Did you not have some surfers surfing on boards with kind of GPS motion sensors involved as well?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[09:51]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yes, that\u2019s\u00a0really not\u00a0my expertise, but Dave in Hawaii has been working with surfers that had GPS on their boards. And they were using different types of things, and then we compared the results from the\u00a0CFD\u00a0simulations with field data. And that was quite a ride, we were not expecting to get the accurate match, but in the end, actually, we\u00a0could see some large differences, both from\u00a0CFD\u00a0and from the field test. And those differences were\u00a0actually matching, which shows that, well, maybe this isn\u2019t the right direction to take.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[10:24]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Because that\u2019s another one of the interesting questions about a surfboard, isn\u2019t it? Because what\u2019s the difference between a good surfboard and a bad surfboard? I guess most of it is subjective in the eyes of the surfer, is what the surfboard feels like. And I guess it depends quite a lot on the experience of the surfer, too. So, how do you tell the difference between a good surfboard and a bad surfboard?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[10:46]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I don\u2019t really think that\u2019s really the scope that we ever had, but the scope is more to quantify the differences between the surfboard in a way that is not anymore just linked to geometrical differences. Because right now, the only way we\u00a0have to\u00a0describe &#8211; is changing slowly, but let\u2019s say until 3-4 years ago, the only way you had to describe a surfboard was to have the dimension of the surfboard. Not even the shape, sometimes the shape was defined as the type of surfboard you were surfing, for instance, a fish or a thruster. But\u00a0also\u00a0the way the volumes were displaced along the surfboard, that\u2019s something that you just see, look at it, and you decide if you like it or not. One of our main scope or at least my main scope and goal is to move away from this type of description into something that is more engineering-based or more results-based, or something that you can at least specify in a better manner so that you can give &#8211; at the beginning is going to be mostly pro athletes, but in the future, maybe also the normal users &#8211; a better way to understand what kind of boards they\u2019re buying. So, will not be a better board or a worse board. Maybe at some point, it will, but I think the main scope right now is to quantify what right now is just based on the subjective way of seeing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[12:06]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah. Because the industry has been around well, from the start for over 1000 years, but as a sport for over 60 years. And there\u2019s quite a lot of innovation anyway because surfboards have changed in the past 60 years, haven\u2019t they already?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[12:18]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">A lot. In terms of materials, in terms of shape. I think it\u2019s\u00a0actually pretty\u00a0impressive to see how far surfboard designers go just by evolution, and trial and error. It\u2019s\u00a0pretty amazing<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[12:34]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, you\u2019re looking to add another dose of innovation into the sport to accelerate it even further, I guess it\u2019s going to be the result of this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[12:42]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I think it\u2019s needed. And I think it\u2019s going to happen no matter what if it\u2019s going to be me, I don\u2019t know, but it\u2019s going to happen, especially when the sports are going to reach a professional level and be included in the Olympics. There will be the need for more specific materials\u00a0and also\u00a0the surfers, at least the professional ones, will start to understand the great value of having something that is correctly described, correctly pre-described, so you can pick your weapons somehow in a 100% secure and safe way.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[13:15]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, tell me just a little bit about the simulations that you did then. I think you compared three different surfboard fin designs. Is that right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[13:24]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yes. We compared two different fin designs and we ran some simulations on them. I think the results presented were only part of the results that we analyzed within the Surf Engineering Association. Also, there we run both either kinematic prescribed motions or torrents\u00a0and also\u00a0the\u00a0FPI\u00a0terms, meaning using fluid-structure interaction. The simulations were run on a simple flume, so we didn\u2019t include any way for specific simulations, but the differences were\u00a0actually pretty\u00a0clear. And some of the differences we were looking at were both how fast was the board turning with the different types of fins,\u00a0and also, how much drag were the fins really providing to the board. Also, there is no optimal because some riders might like to have a little bit more of a loose feeling on their boards, meaning that they like the board to slide a little bit more. So, it\u2019s not that some fins that provide better grip better than other fins. But what is kind of important or what is important for the surfers is to have a type of fins that don\u2019t release toll in an abrupt way so that you can always somehow control the force that you are applying to the board and the reaction that you get from the board. So, it\u2019s not\u00a0really about\u2026 It\u2019s difficult to describe what is a better fin or if there is a better fin than other ones, but for sure delaying the stall or at least mitigating the stall is one of the key components.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[14:53]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">But what you\u2019ve managed to do is you\u2019ve managed to characterize the different fins, so people could make an informed decision about the type of board they liked for the first time. You can look at a surfboard and say it\u2019s got these characteristics. It\u2019s not just a question of riding it and feeling it; you can do that with numbers. Was it more than just pulling out numbers, though? Could you see the kind of flow around the board? Because I guess for\u00a01000s\u00a0of year-old sport, not many people have ever probably seen the flow around the underside of a surfboard. So, I guess there\u2019s lots of insight that can be gained from just looking at the flow around the surfboard, isn\u2019t there?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[15:27]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Exactly. So, it was actually a very interesting study, and some of the structures that use sometimes &#8211; now there is a lot of photographers that are placing themselves very close to the surfer. So, sometimes you have this amazing footage with surfers shot from below the water. And you can see some of the structures that you\u00a0actually saw\u00a0in the simulations, like for instance, ventilation with air getting caught under the board and mixed with swirls and vorticity. So yeah, that was\u00a0pretty amazing\u00a0to be able to visualize and quantify these types of effects, that in general are extremely complex to see in real life. I guess that\u2019s where the real power of\u00a0CFD\u00a0is that you get some results, but you also manage to understand what is causing those results.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[16:15]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It\u2019s also interesting to see these surfboards, which have basically been designed almost through evolution, through successive generations of surfers are finding out sometimes that from a\u00a0CFD\u00a0point of view, they\u00a0actually work, don\u2019t they? As well, there\u2019s sometimes the surprise that things are already pretty good, before you even look at them. So, engineering simulation can improve a design, but were the designs quite good to start with anyway?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[16:40]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">At this stage, I have to say that we didn\u2019t make any dramatic improvements, so we didn\u2019t revolutionize the market yet. I think there is a lot to discover, a lot to improve; standardization, for instance, is one of the directions that I think the surfboard industry or at least each producer should take. So, trying to understand, build the database, run simulations on a certain number of surfboards, collect data from the field because that\u2019s where I think the real power of this type of simulation will start appearing. When you start to collect data and have a database large enough so that you can compare different designs. We are right now just opening doors, checking solutions, try to see what\u2019s possible pushing boundaries. Applying all this new methodology. It is not the only\u00a0methodology,\u00a0I think is a new vision or a new way of seeing surfboards will probably require some time and some effort from both the surfers and the surfboard producers.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[17:43]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Can you tell me a little bit about biomimicry? And so, one of the\u00a0fin\u00a0designs you tried out I think was inspired by nature, wasn\u2019t it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[17:51]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yes, there was an idea of Dave, inspired by the whales. So, they have this kind of tubercular structure in front of their fins. And that supposedly, at least nature made them involved in that way so that they could improve their hydrodynamics. And we\u00a0actually found\u00a0out it works pretty well also on surfboard fins. So,\u00a0first of all, they are pretty amazing to ride those fins and at the same time is kind of amazing that they are coming somehow from an evolutionary process already happening in nature.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[18:23]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Was there any benefit from using the whale-inspired fin designs?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[18:28]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, it\u2019s a bit in line with what I was saying earlier. So, you have a way smoother stall, so the fin itself is not stalling abruptly at a certain angle, but it\u2019s more transitioning into a more stall condition without causing this abrupt change in drag or side force. Also, there, while you\u2019re riding deciding what is drag and what side force &#8211; we had a long discussion amongst us, \u201cShould we follow the direction of the board? Should we follow the direction of the surfer? Should we follow the tangent direction?\u201d So, it was a\u00a0pretty complicated\u00a0discussion. So, when you start working with different reference systems, everything gets mixed up, so you don\u2019t know\u00a0anymore\u00a0what\u00a0is a drag, what is lift, what is side force.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[19:14]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Because I guess those are simple concepts that don\u2019t really apply to a dynamic three-moving structure, which is going through waves, I think, so that\u2019s an interesting observation. So, having basically validated your approach using complicated maneuvers, but under simple stuff, so those were done on\u00a0more or less a\u00a0flat sea surface, weren\u2019t they?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[19:34]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yes. At least the ones that are presented in the paper were done on a free surface.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[19:39]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">What\u2019s the prospect of simulating surfboard dynamics on real waves? Is that something that\u2019s possible, do you think?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[19:48]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, I think we\u2019ve been, one of the presentations that we had there at the first symposium that we had, was about a surfboard sliding on a tube. At some point, the idea there is to have a reference tip where you could eventually simulate a surfboard floating on the tube. Right\u00a0now\u00a0we are only working on prescribed motion or prescribed kinematics, so the board somehow is slicing through the tube. We already got some very interesting results from that and very interesting understandings or at least we are getting closer to understand the complexity of the hydrodynamics that the board experiences such condition. But at some point, I\u2019m 100% sure that we\u2019ll be able to simulate a real surfer committing maneuvers or acting on the wave. And yeah, basically maneuvering on the wave itself, which is I think the Holy Grail. We are not there yet, but I can see that it\u2019s doable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[20:47]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It\u2019s an incredible idea. I mean, we\u2019ve talked about kind of the digital twins of the surfboards, but that requires you to have a digital twin of a wave as well, which itself obviously in marine\u00a0CFD\u00a0applications they have wave interactions, but a surfing tube is a whole different order of magnitude and complexity. How would you even go about simulating a wave?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[21:08]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, there has been a lot of trial and error from my side. I\u2019ve been simulating waves for about 10 years, but they were not the same type of wave. Some of them were\u00a0actually breaking\u00a0also because in the offshore wind energy business one of the most complicated situations that you can simulate is the wave slamming on the structure, so those waves were almost breaking. So, almost braking, or at least braking on the monopiles, so on the structure. So, I already had some knowledge on how or what kind of settings I should use, but from there on from moving from those types of waves which are still some are two dimensional, they\u2019re three dimensional but you\u2019re sending a two-dimensional wave. So, moving from there to a real three-dimensional wave where the wave is peeling it was an enormous amount of trial and error until I was fully satisfied with the dynamics of the wave, the size of the wave, the velocity of the wave. And there was done try to represent a real existing break\u00a0witch\u00a0is\u00a0coho, so there the idea was to have a wave that was peeling and moving at very similar speeds than one you can expect there in Tahiti.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[22:20]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So, a Tahiti wave modeled using simulation in Simcenter, that\u2019s an incredible achievement.\u00a0And also, I think it\u2019s another way that the industry or the sport seems to be heading isn\u2019t it? Because I think the top professional surfers now have their own kind of wave-making facilities, so they can practice their surfing on using repeatable waves. Do you think that\u2019s another possible application for computational fluid dynamics and simulation?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[22:43]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I\u2019ve been sneaking into most of the wave pool projects and I think 99% of them are designed using\u00a0CFD\u00a0or\u00a0CFD\u00a0applications. So yes, that\u2019s\u00a0definitely an\u00a0enormous market and an enormous growing market.\u00a0Also\u00a0there I have to say that a lot of the research or a lot of the effort started from research that was applied from other fields. So, it\u2019s kind of interesting to see how oceanography and even the offshore wind energy but also offshore oil and gas market have been contributing to something that I don\u2019t think they were really expecting will have happened, which is surfing waves produced by manmade machines.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[23:29]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It\u2019s incredible. And I mean, it\u2019s worth checking out, we\u2019ll put some links in the show notes for this. But it\u2019s incredible to see if you look on YouTube, these kinds of sections of the beach where people are making these reproducible, re-creatable waves, so you can practice the same maneuvers again and again. In any other sport that will revolutionize the sport, so I think it\u2019s exciting times for surfing. So, when we said at the start of this, that Surfing is an Olympic sport, if we step forward four\u00a0years time<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u2026\u00a0<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So\u00a0at the moment I guess most of the surfboards designed, all the surfboards in the Tokyo Olympics will be designed using traditional techniques. Do you think in four years\u2019 time at the next Olympics, after obviously surfing is going to be a massive success, we\u2019re going to start to see the impact of CAE-designed surfboards?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[24:13]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I really think so. And that will develop into,\u00a0first of all, understanding not only from us that are driving this change but also from the riders. And I know I\u2019ve been working with professional athletes for about 15\u00a0years\u00a0and I am 100% sure that when they will start seeing that they can get something better, they will want that something better because of that little bit of advantage that you can get from a better design or at least from knowing the type of design you\u2019re going to ride is going to make a massive difference for them. So, it\u2019s not going to be driven anymore just by us that are maybe a little bit of a visionary in this field, but more from the\u00a0really\u00a0performance side of the sports which are the surfers. I completely see that. And we could make a bet and see if this happens or not.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[25:07]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Well, I\u2019ll certainly invite you back on the podcast and we\u2019re looking at, and I don\u2019t even know where the next Olympics is going to be, but we\u2019ll\u00a0definitely have\u00a0a chat about that. And maybe we can have a chat after this Olympics as well. I mean, I think all you\u00a0have to\u00a0do in that regard is you only have to hook one top surfer, don\u2019t you? As soon as one guy or girl is seen to be getting an advantage from using this technology and using surfboard design or this technology, then everybody else just\u00a0has to\u00a0follow because that\u2019s the way of sport. It\u2019s about marginal gains, any sort of improvement you can demonstrate will I\u2019m sure revolutionize the sport. So, Luca, supposing that there\u2019s an expert surfer out there who wants to utilize some of these techniques that you\u2019ve developed and to improving their surfboard, how would they go about doing that? Could they contact you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[25:52]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Yeah, they can just contact us directly. So, we are right now in the full phase of development, and of course, following the journey of a professional surfer from our side will be\u00a0absolutely amazing<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[26:04]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Stephen Ferguson:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">All right, that was\u00a0really interesting. I think it\u2019s a fantastic application of\u00a0CFD\u00a0and simulation. I love the way that you\u2019ve already given insight, but I love the way that you\u2019re able to characterize surfboards for the first time that you\u2019re getting information about how the fluid dynamics of surfing works. I think the prospects are\u00a0really huge. And so, thank you very much Luca for joining me. It has been\u00a0really interesting. Thank you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[26:27]<\/span><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca Oggiano:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Thank you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559740&quot;:276}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>      <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n  <\/div>\n  <\/div><!-- end #accordion -->\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-vivid-cyan-blue-color has-css-opacity has-vivid-cyan-blue-background-color has-background is-style-wide\"\/>\n\n\n<div class=\"bio-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-3 order-first bio-pic\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/fergie-1.jpg\" alt=\"Stephen Ferguson, your host\" \/>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-9 bio-info\">\n        <div class=\"bio-header\">\n            <h4 class=\"speakerintro\">Stephen Ferguson, your host<\/h4>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-biography\">\n            <p>Stephen Ferguson is a fluid-dynamicist with more than 25 years of experience in applying advanced simulation to the most challenging problems that engineering has to offer for companies such as WS Atkins, BMW and CD-adapco and Siemens. He has never tried to stand up on a surfboard.<\/p>        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-contact\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/stephenferguson\/?originalSubdomain=uk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Connect with Stephen on Linkedin<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n<div class=\"bio-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-3 order-first bio-pic\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/Picture1.png\" alt=\"Luca Oggiano, our guest\" \/>\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-9 bio-info\">\n        <div class=\"bio-header\">\n            <h4 class=\"speakerintro\">Luca Oggiano, our guest<\/h4>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-biography\">\n            <p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Co-founder and CEO of\u00a0Nabla\u00a0Flow, Luca\u2019s background is in aerospace engineering. He holds a PhD in sports aerodynamics and comes from the professional sports world where he has helped athletes succeed &#8211; from the Norwegian Federations to the professional cycling team INEOS Grenadiers (former Team Sky). A surfer with a strong connection to the ocean and the environment, Luca has for the past 10 years conducted national and international research projects to help the Norwegian green transition from oil and gas to offshore wind as well as pushed the boundaries of the surfing industry by applying\u00a0CFD\u00a0(computational fluid dynamics) methods to surfboard design.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Luca is currently working on twisting the way fluid dynamics is applied to\u00a0a number of\u00a0fields \u2013 from urban pedestrian comfort to drone paths, high performance sports, wind energy, product and surfboard design with the help of AI.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"bio-contact\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/luca-oggiano\/?originalSubdomain=no\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Connect with Luca on Linkedin<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\"><strong>Stuff to watch:<\/strong>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=iTIZvksf6XE\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Artificial Wave Ranch<\/a>&nbsp;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\"><strong>Good reads:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/simcenter\/surfs-up-magic-boards-on-how-to-make-a-professional-surfboard\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Surf\u2019s Up! Magic Boards on how to make a professional surfboard<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/simcenter\/towel-day-the-aerodynamics-of-freefalling-sperm-whale\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Towel Day: The Aerodynamics of Freefalling Sperm Whale<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/simcenter\/intelligent-design-exploration-and-cfd-engineering-better-than-nature\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Intelligent Design Exploration and CFD- engineering better than nature<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Mu-aEcyhiro\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">How do you combine technology and passion to realize your vision?<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9d6595d7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"podcast-information-block row\">\n    <div class=\"col-4 podcast-cover\">\n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/Engineer-Innovation-podcast-NEW-BRANDING.jpg\" alt=\"Engineer Information Podcast\">\n    <\/div>\n    <div class=\"col-8 podcast-info\">\n        <div class=\"podcast-header\">\n            <h2>Engineer Innovation<\/h2>\n        <\/div>\n        <div class=\"podcast-description\">\n            <p>A podcast series for engineers by engineers, <em>Engineer Innovation<\/em> focuses on how simulation and testing can help you drive innovation into your products and deliver the products of tomorrow, today.<\/p><\/div>\n        <div class=\"podcast-landing-page\">\n            <p><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/engineer-innovation\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">See more Engineer Innovation<\/a><\/p>\n        <\/div>\n    <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>(Episode 1) People have been riding waves for more than 5000 years, which makes surfing one of the world\u2019s oldest&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":59541,"featured_media":2575,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"spanish_translation":"","french_translation":"","german_translation":"","italian_translation":"","polish_translation":"","japanese_translation":"","chinese_translation":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[398],"tags":[402,401,311],"industry":[26,32,40,51,49,54,59,60],"product":[220,234],"coauthors":[404],"class_list":["post-2562","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-engineer-innovation","tag-engineer-innovation","tag-simcenter","tag-simulation","industry-automotive-transportation","industry-consumer-products-retail","industry-electronics-semiconductors","industry-heavy-equipment","industry-industrial-machinery","industry-marine","industry-media-telecommunications","industry-medical-devices-pharmaceuticals","product-simcenter-cae-solutions","product-simcenter-star-ccm"],"featured_image_url":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/32\/2021\/05\/wave2.png","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2562","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/59541"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2562"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2562\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6591,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2562\/revisions\/6591"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2575"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2562"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2562"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2562"},{"taxonomy":"industry","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/industry?post=2562"},{"taxonomy":"product","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/product?post=2562"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.sw.siemens.com\/podcasts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=2562"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}